@AGS Please, revert the Guardian raids 50% more hp change! Reason inside!

General Discussion General Discussion
#1

Dear AGS!

Please, revert these changes! Not because it makes the raids too hard, but because it makes the raid more time consuming which is not the point of guardian raids.

This should be a daily, farming activity which in the meantime teaches you the basics.

Guardian raids are not end game contents and are not meant to be this time consuming.

While I understand that you got feedback from the minority of beta players, but you should know that these raids are used to be farmed and are pretty much prefectly tuned on the other servers.

The first tier of raid bosses are not even hard (yes, that was the point where the beta players herpderped because they are so easy) because they are slowley intruducing mechanics.

Tier 2 is intruducing wipe mechanics , again… slowely and make players farming mats + learning these essential tricks along with interrupts and positioning.

The more you go higher from this point you will eventually realise that they are actually not that easy but somewhat still manageable in daily routine without spending too much time on them. Again: these guardian raids are meant to be done on daily basis.

The 50% + hp might not sound much but it is actually make it more like a chore. It’s fun to be done with a boss in a sensible time and get rewarded for that but making them into a bullet sponge will give us nothing and will have no real positive impact on them.

I understand that some of the beta players thought that it’s a feat of strength to kill these little guys, but in reality they just didn’t know that they are actually not WoW like raid bosses.

The misconception might came from that. WoW raid bosses are something else and I think many of them thought that these guys are the end game etc.

Tl.dr.: The current 50% hp buff is just makes it a struggle/chore while this should be a teaching/material farming daily activity.

And most importantly: The forum requires Thar as avatar.

Edit:
Just to be sure that I’m not talking because I can’t clear anything or something:
Tytalos raid screenshot
Edit:
Another one so it can be more creditable:
Tytalos 2
Plus:
Also: I’m not stuck anywhere, only my gear score cap’s me clearing everything.
I only do guardians in a PUG or SOLO and as I said, if AGS has the data, they can prove it.

Again, I wont spend more time than I should with them.

Edit:
People who complain about the nerf: What’s the point? You are mad cause more people will be able to clear the same content as you? Are you literally crying that the game will be more accessible to everyone?

Why do not you ask for higher difficulity? I for one, I would totally support something like “Unleashed” or whatever Guardian raids.

As you see, I clear every content yet I support the nerfs cause that’s what an mmo is about: players, fun, accessibility and respect toward our time.

93 Likes
I can hear the Korean players, already
Thanks AGS for actually listening to feedback related to Guardians raids! This is a very good move toward a healthy game
Overwhelmingly negative feedback from community about content nerf
Answer Regarding Guardian Raid and Abyss Dungeon Difficulty
Please don't nerf content
#2

The t1/t2 raids were easy on beta because they were part of the catchup mechanics since t3 was out. Think of it like nerfing the previous expansion’s content so you can get to the current expansion (t3) quicker.

People specifically asked for old guardian raids because having skips for content that was completely new to NA/EU felt kinda weird. I’m pretty sure the changes only affect t1/t2 guardian raids and they mentioned the catchup systems will return later, which likely means these nerfs will reapply later.

I look forward to the reintroduction of the catchup systems, but out of most decisions made, I think holding off for a month or two before adding the catchup systems is a wise decision.

3 Likes
#3

Again, the raids are not hard, they just more time consuming and more stressful in not a good way.

Yes, I’m able to clear each of them on daily basis on the minimal ilvl, but it takes much more time than it should be for no reason.

Again: These raids are for material farming and teaching and by no mean they are feats of strength.

Bullet sponge is never a good solution especially not on something which should be done everyday.

Also: Try to do the guardians on higher level and I guarantee that you will have your challenge without the 50% buff in a PUG.

6 Likes
#4

Subjective. For a lot of people if the boss has more HP, they have more time to do mechanics and things that can kill and wear the players down over time. Before you were able to just jump in solo and kill the thing in 2 minutes, ignoring every mechanic on almost every t1/t2 guardian.

#5

If I remember right, T3 guardians are UNCHANGED. They are supposed to have that kind of HP, resistance and difficulty. There’s an additional nerf to your damage output and defenses if you don’t have enough gear score over the guardian itself too.

#6

If you can do the mechanics for 5 min that means the rest of the time you are not failing because you are bad, but:

  • Bored
  • Lost interest
  • Become stressed

Mostly because the challenge wont be in pair with the rewards cause this is, as I said many times nothing but a farming option for materials.

Not harder, just more time consuming and stressful. By the time you will get enough material and you killed them for that, you will learn their mechanics anyway.

9 Likes
#7

Inb4 someone educates you on why FFXIV bosses are 10-15+ minute fights. Testing you once or twice doesn’t always mean mastery. Even if most abyss will just test you once or twice.

#8

I don’t think that it as real problem. It doesn’t take more than 10m per guardian boss, what do you want to to do them in 5? what’s next? bying a 3rd party bot so it plays for you? xDD

10m it’s perfectly fine for a fight.
Actually, until some hard content is realeased, I would even double the HP so you have something fun to do

#9

I cleared WoW end-game raids many times and also managed to do end-game raids in FFXIV.

This statement of yours:

What you are mixing up is Guardian raids with Legion Raids.

Legion raids is basicly what you talk about refering to FFXIV or WoW. Guardian raid is more like a dungeon in WoW or in FFXIV.

#10

If you are on Kadan, let’s party up and let’s see how you perform in Abyss dungeon or on an actual hard Guardian fight.

Or, just please, post a screenshot where you actually clear a decently difficult guardian.

As I said, I think many of you who think it’s easy, didn’t even scratch the surface.

Edit: Or stream it and show it, I’m up for that too…

#11

I’m up for it, for sure

I’m not saying I don’t respect your opinion. But If you cleared End game raid bosses in WoW or FFXIV. (I also did btw) I can’t understand 10m it’s bothering you for a daily content, or even 20 if you kill it on the last second. After going through the hell of wiping 3/4h straitgh over a month or two to get one single kill xD

Just saying that this is a meaningless change, get a good party and oneshot them, as we did in both WoW and FFXIV before. The content just becomes to easy overtime, having that 50% more hp will make it a little bit more enjoyable

1 Like
#12

Everyone has.

There’s Guardian Raids, Abyss Raids and Legion Raids.

They have different kinds of challenges…

Guardian Raids focus on a continuous assault of a boss monster as both sides wear each other down. There are mechanics on some, but the primary thing are the sustained tradeoff on the party and the monster over time.

Abyss Dungeons are coordination checks. The damage checks are very low in general but there are coordination checks and stagger checks everywhere that go over the core features of fighting bosses in the game.

Legion raids combine Guardian and Abyss. It’s a sustained wearing down of the boss and the party while coordination, stagger and damage checks exist across the board.

Overall the guardian raids in their original design, not their catchup design that are supposed to be long fights. Abyss Dungeons are usually not long fights but they have mechanic checks that usually stop damage until they are done. Legion combines both among several phases.

#13

Because Guardian raids are not end game contents but farming contets. You know, like a daily quest in WoW and FFXIV. However, just a little bit more fun. (In my opinion.)

As I said you must be confused because they are called raids but when it comes to end game, it’s actually not these guys. These guys are here to provide materials.

So basicly, if you are going back to kill them on higher item level it’s pointless, cause they offer you nothing.

6 Likes
#14

They are both.

No different from a daily that requires a dungeon or boss kill.

All the raids provide materials. These guardian raids are endgame, they test difficulty differently than Abyss dungeons or Legion raids. Heck even Chaos dungeons are endgame, just because they aren’t as difficult, doesn’t mean they aren’t endgame or an important part of endgame.

That’s why they are endgame for the tier you are in.

2 Likes
#15

No, they are currently taking more time than they should, basicly, because we already have T3 content too.

No point on 50% hp on any of them. What for? Honestly, we have enough content and these guys are not end game contents.

They only for gear updates.

What you say that other things are the same…lol, no.

End game content will drop gear and on higher difficult they will even drop mounts and titles. Those are the end game things for example.

Guardian raids are there for you grab materials to upgrade your gear for okish effort without too much struggle but still with a little bit challenge.

As I said: buffing HP is never a solution, Blizzard learnt that too. Do you remember when Legion raids in WoW had too much hp or when WoTLK dungeon bosses had too much hp? They were not challenging but annoying and time consuming. That’s the case here too.

Blizzard reverted those changes and as I see other topics , maybe AGS this time will listen to the feedback and look into the matter too.

2 Likes
#16

Wrong. These were the original values of T1 and T2. You want it to be equal to the catchup version. The catchup version is NOT the version they were originally designed for. The only reason the catchup versions exist are because the regions had already been exposed to years of T1/T2 guardian raids already and just wanted to fast track the way to T3. You are used to the catchup versions on beta and have no idea what the game used to be like.

As far as I remember, it might be a lot more than 50% hp…which definitely makes stagger and break checks a lot more brutal.

But they are. They used to be endgame content when they were in the game. There were no legion raids, I swear to you…you have zero idea what this game had and why it had it.

This is all hindsighted garbage and has no perspective.

And due to your lack of perspective, you don’t know that the change BACK to the catchup version will happen after we’ve been exposed to the t1/t2 versions of these old guardians long enough. Maybe as early as 1-2 months.

3 Likes
Needed clarification about nerfs...
#17

Do you have a source for the 50%?

1 Like
#18

If there is actually a 50% hp increase currently then I support it and I think it should stay this way. There are too many people following guides and boosting ilvl and not learning the basic mechanics of the game even with the hp boost. At least for some the hp can gatekeep and slow down some players so they’re forced to learn. If you know what you’re doing the “hp increase” is unnoticeable.

1 Like
#19

You dont learn basic mechanics by giving a Boss Monster more HP.
Having more HP doesnt make bosses harder just more tedious and off-putting.

If anything they could alteast add a health bar on the boss, cause it feels like theres no progress going in killing it.

3 Likes
#20

Actually, you do. Longer experience history with monsters is what will create familiarity with the mechanics. Nice try though, perhaps play longer than a month before calling something tedious because I guarantee people who have experience in the game don’t even notice a meaningful difference. The mode is meant to be Monster Hunter-esque and part of that is paying attention to boss patterns instead of mindlessly looking at a health bar to determine everything for you. You can tell the phases of bosses based on attack patterns and other visual queues.