At what point are you Toxic and how can you point out mistakes to other players?

Many of you may know that you have to play with “randoms” every now and then, because not necessarily someone is always available.

The fact is that everyone plays differently, but many don’t think about the whole team.

I had today once again a prime example that someone wanted to run with the head through the wall and without explanation or anything else the Yorn dungeon.

So after this already died at the first boss (in dungeon 1) I hoped it was just coincidence, BUT then the one person did not want to be explained or positioning.
What has led to the fact that you are wiped several times during the mechanic.

Instead of then but to learn from it or to listen this person wants to continue simply without positioning pure, has the mechanics still not understood.
And wiped again,

When you then want to get out but is not let because against it was voted you are then called TOXIC.
What should you do then please, if already not on explanations is received and is held captive in the raid.

The problem is you can not ALWAYS play without randoms, just because not everyone is online at the same time or not everyone has the same number of characters.

Also it happens very often that people sign up but have already run the dungeon, which usually leads to errors and the group search is generally bogged (that means the dungeon does not start if you have then replaced someone).
Maybe you should implement that people can’t sign up for dungeons if they don’t have an attempt left.

ALSO there should be a marker for players if they (and maybe how often they) have already completed a dungeon.

Since it happens all the time that people claim they know something but are obviously in it for the first time. so basically lying.

I basically have nothing against teaching someone something new in a study group with voice and co. no problem at all.
But, if you just want to finish your alt quickly and write “Altrun” in the description, then I expect people to sign up with alts as well (or at least have run before).

Also, if you set the item requirement for a dungeon higher than the minimum, you are already called “Toxic”. What people don’t understand is that it is of course easier and faster if not everyone starts a dungeon at the minimum requirement.
Since many also completely ignore their gear and engravings anyway.

I don’t know if I’m getting upset for no reason, but I think it’s generally a shame that so many people refuse to deal with the game even though INGAME has tons of guides and explanations for everything.

In my opinion, it is much more toxic when you always assume others that you carriet them everywhere without consideration.
Heaps of time inanspruch nimmt from strangers, because you yourself everything is indifferent.
People don’t care how much bombs and potions people waste ONLY because they A. don’t want to use bombs, B. just let themselves die or C. don’t want to learn or play a mechanic.

Such behavior should not be tolerated, and not always point the finger at people who are upset about something like that.

Here is an example, that you are directly labeled as toxic, just because you want to do something reasonable.

is this already toxic? how could i handle it better when i cant leave?

Now some probably say “you don’t have to play with randoms”.

The problem is, you can only start such things with 4 people, and unfortunately on EU West the players are not active enough to have much alternatives.

I think such things would be easily solved by having masks for players or even counters how often someone has completed something (in the roster).

Just to show others “he has experience”.
Unfortunately even Gear or Engreaving is not very meaningful, at least in terms of understanding mechanics.

What I just wish is that generally more consideration is taken to each other and also the understanding is there that other players have costs for each wipe you cause.
(Repair costs, bombs & potions and especially time, which for some players is probably also very limited by work).
Unfortunately, our society has generally become very selfish and everyone looks only at themselves.

What is your thought on this?

If you think someone can’t perform well enough, you can try to offer guidance - without namecalling. If you do it politely, and they still get offended - you at least tried.

It becomes toxic the moment either side becomes impolite. You don’t need to carry anyone, but you don’t deserve to be called out on trying to help either. And you certainly don’t deserve the right to treat others badly either. Vote kick is the alternative - I don’t think it should be against the rules to remove a problematic party member, as much as it sucks for the kicked one.

It is a team game, and if one cannot/will not play as a team member…

Sometimes a group simply is so bad that there’s little point spending an eternity for something that should be cleared within minutes. It’s not fun to have to abandon the group and re-queue, but lack of player skill is not an offense either. Why someone is unskilled, is another question that I cannot answer.

There is a big difference between people who like to learn. And people who just don’t give a fuck about everything.

Mostly I just guidance someone and the he did progress after few tries is everything ok.

But people who don’t even use battleitems … Don’t want to listen and stuff. Should get just a mark.
Sorry to say but nobody has something about people like those.
They will do it again and again … fuck up other groups and stuff like that.
Why can other people not just get warned before?
Just to minimize problems at all

You don’t have the right to call someone retard, braindead, smoothbrain, autistic, or anything else along those lines just because they made a mistake or didn’t want to speak up when they didn’t understand/use battle items/etc. You can’t abuse someone just because you feel you’ve been treated unfairly.

No one does, as you can see from the chat history.

I just wonder why it’s hard not to look at a guide, and other players virtually in distress brings. Those who were able to look at a guide before.

Ok let’s take an example in school,
Someone who doesn’t know that it’s ok to insult, push or anything else is defended because he didn’t know any better?

You can’t tell me that it’s okay to virtually insult others.
As if it were the very first game in which there are mechanics.
Even in WoW it was normal to look at guides BEFORE you go into a raid.

Why is it nowadays tolerated, and obviously also approved, if you are obviously on the pocket of others. or robbing others of the game fun, if you just want to play relaxed?

First of all don’t write in caps. Its like shouting. Starting to give advise after one wipe is not necessary. Mistakes can happen even if the mechanics are known.
Wait 3 or 4 tries and then ask politely if there are any problems, and don’t use caps.
After 7 or 8 tries i would start a vote.

Now I am 100% on board with blind runs. The most fun I’ve had in my gaming history was launch day of new savage raids in FF14 and going in with my friends learning the fights. If someone wants to not watch a guide for a dungeon I will never be mad at that - especially since the game basically teaches you for 50 levels that content doesn’t matter.

However, when someone is trying to teach me something I would never turn around and be rude to them. If they are taking time out of their day to teach me a mechanic I am obviously failing at I would thank them and try my best to follow their advice.

It seems like some people are just incapable of putting their ego aside, and that is really the issue. If you are constantly concerned about your ego you never learn from people who are smarter than you. Sad to see, but it’s also common to see nowadays :frowning:

If the refuse to learn mechanics and play properly there is nothing you can do, just report them for Gameplay Hindrance and move over.

Pretty simple, it’s not what you say or what facts you are trying to say, it’s how you do it.

Simply explain what they are mucking up and help them learn the mechanics. If you get a negative reaction even though you are not being toxic or coming across as a jerk, then they are not mature enough to understand the mechanics or take reality as it is anyway, nothing lost nothing gained.

At that point you move on and don’t play with them again. GG.

If you just start saying you suck, thanks for wasting my time, you don’t even know mechanics noob, harassing them basically with no intention of actually making the effort to try and solve the issues they are having, well you are just wasting your own time at that point and won’t be getting a positive outcome, at that point it is more about you working out your frustration and aggression on others instead of learning how to do deal with things when they don’t go the way you want them to.

I think if everyone is honest with themselves we are all guilty of all of the above at one point or another in our gaming lives on both sides of the coin.

Simply pointing out how someone is making mistakes and giving advice is not being toxic but if you come across as an elitist condescending jerk talking down to people, don’t expect a positive outcome or comeback…

Now, to avoid all of the above and is what a lot of people I play with do purely because they don’t want the hassle or frustrations of dealing with pug groups, they will just only play with guild members and/or friends list people who are decent to play with. Decreasing the risk of a negative outcome and more enjoyable gaming experience while also helping with coordination, organization of mechanics and communication etc etc.

I’m not toxic. If someone doesn’t know mechanics I can explain if someone does but still dies all the time I can try a few times but after that, I just want to quit to not waste resources.
I don’t think that wasting my time to get mad at some random players I will never meet again could make me any favor.

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my problem in this point was the people doesnt let me out there and voted against the quit … so what should i do than?

It’s 2022, everything can be considered toxic depending on the person, sadly.