Bard looking for Advices in Ranked

Kinos · August 26, 2022, 4:02am

I’m stuck, hard to climb Elo, i feel that just playing won’t help much and i will be relying too much on luck with teammates, i readed some guides before and watched some bard videos and really didn’t help much because they were guides without gameplay and gameplay without explanation, so i recorded my last 10 matches that i believe is enough to understand my level and i will post here seeking advice on my mistakes and what i could have done in certain situation.

Is just raw un-edited videos around 5~6 minutes each, so it will show others name, some people being toxic but that isn’t the point of me making the video, if you are bored enough to look on them and give advices i will apreciate it.

Build is pretty much the same in guides, i just use 249 Endurance instead of Spec.

1º Match: VS Scrapper - Artillerist - Deathblade

2º Match: VS Gunslinger - Arcanist - Sorceress

3º Match: VS Deathblade - Shadowhunter - Arcanist

4º Match: VS Arstillerist - Sorceress - Bard

5º Match: VS Shadowhunter - Bard - Sharpshooter

6º Match: VS Soulfist - Bard - Destroyer

7º Match: VS Gunslinger - Bard - Paladin

8º Match: VS Sorceress - Soulfist - Destroyer

9º Match: VS Scrapper - Sorceress - Bard

10º Match: VS Striker - Paladin - Deathblade

This one was probably the worst for me, i just did because one of the video was broken and i needed a new one.

sodcuda · August 26, 2022, 5:31am

Haven’t watched them all yet.

Let’s go with the first video.

First game you pick bad routes to run and often get caught into a lot of damage esp from Artillerist. You also need to recognize some enemy abilities. Example, in this game you threw multiple CC attempts into Artillerist shield which gives him push immunity. You also hold your Rhapsody of Light. You don’t use it until a min into the match and you do it from a really bad position that completely turned that fight - your team starts at 2 people at full hp and 1 at half hp vs the enemy that is at full hp, 10% hp, 20% hp and in your one badly positioned spellcast, you ended up getting 1 kill but giving up a double kill to the Deathblade.

You also seem to randomly throw out your Prelude of Storm stun without either knowing it’s full range or being able to properly aim it because you miss it regularly. This is even more evident in the first half of the 2nd match where you almost miss every single one.

So you need to work on positioning and knowing your spells, and then recognizing enemy abilities.

Wseno · August 26, 2022, 12:13pm

I will point out some of the mistakes you did in the first 2 matches with the hope it will help you

Match 1 :

Mistake 1:

In this situation, you should have seen the artillerist’s shield, he is immune to T2 CC, so your skill won’t be effective.
Secondly in this positioning, it’s hard for you to dodge efficiently, you should look for repositioning or at least being ready to counter engage

Mistake 2:

Your Stun (Prelude of storm) is a really important skill, you don’t have the freedom to waste it, on this screen, the Artillerist is alone focusing his attention on your mate, you could have punish him with your stun instead of trying to hit max range and relying on luck

Advice:

You should activate the animation skills of your mate for PvP it’s really important to know what they are doing, it will help you to anticipate the next moves

Mistake 3:

Keep on eye on the future threats especially when you are casting, it was obvious the opponent would try to rush in, you shouldn’t get caught by that

Mistake 4:

When opponents are chasing you, using unprotected skills in front of them is the same as saying: kill me, you had a lot of options to stall time

Mistake 5:

Use your space bar with parsimony, you don’t have the freedom to waste it

Mistake 6:

Instead of focusing a target with a shield, you should have refresh your damage buff while keeping an eye on the low hp opponent to finish him, in this positioning casting an unprotected skill obviously result in you getting caught and losing a lot of HP

Mistake 7:

You should use your roll in a safe direction, where you can try to save your hp and escape/counter engage, using it in the skill of your opponent result in losing HP and worse to get caught a second time and dying

Mistake 8:

Your rhapsody is a really important skill which can save your ally from a huge mistake, you shouldn’t use it for the stagger in 99% of the times

Mistake 9:

When using your awakening, don’t be afraid of pinging your mates, some of them might play without ally animations and miss it, or be afraid of getting caught by an AOE and run away from it.

Match 2

Mistake 1: 0:19

Try to time your buff better, to use them when you feel your mates are about to engage or counter engage

Mistake 2: 0:35

The opponents are too far away for your skill to be efficient, again, be careful about your CD managament, compare it to 0:57

Mistake 3: 1:48

Again, try using your space bar to reposition yourself in a safe place, not in range of the Sorc which caught you right after

Mistake 4: 1:58

In a 3v2 situation especially when one of your opponent is really low HP, you should look to pressure and take the control of the map, you have to anticipate that you need to go in, your mates want to deal damage before resetting (dying to quickly come back with full HP), while you want to be at the right place to support them and get the most of their low HP

Mistake 5: 2:10

CD management: don’t waste your huge CD( 50s) for a mate about to die

Mistake 6: 3:07

CD management: Your awakening could have been game breaker 5/5, 3v2 situation, it’s a good moment to use your awakening to push and get the advtange at the condition your mates get it, you could have ping to prevent them or delay it a bit to use it when they catch someone so you are sure they are grouped

Mistake 7: 4:29

You used your skill slightly before moving your mouse of the target, so you missed and get caught by the Sorceress. After the fail, you should have anticipate the Sorceress would try to focus you and use your rhapsody on yourself before trying to escape or fake a movement in a direction to bait her skill.

I checked the third game, it was a bit better especially your awakening, one tip: try sometimes to delay your roll instead of instantly using it, you can often bait a huge CD. Moreover when you are in a safe spot, you should save it.

Ouvertuere · August 26, 2022, 2:42pm

I might add, with regard to the shield of the arti, if you are in that position and you are to die anyways and cant do anything else except of attacking him “while loading your meter” and “reducing his shield” taking into account that your team mates are alone when you are dead, they will have an arti who is more vulnerable during that time.

Loading your meter to have a healing circle to put under your team mates or yourself next round.

Edit: not referring to the videos, didnt watch them, just generally if you are in that bad position.
Edit2: loading with soundholic, nothing else.

Ouvertuere · August 27, 2022, 2:02pm

Hi,

now I ve watched the first video and have to add some general beginner bard recommendations:

I noticed you use your skills actively. Bard is support only.

A thing I ve been struggling myself with when I switched from sorc to bard. I wanted to do damage. Not possible. Not made for. Use your skills reactively. For the beginning.

I sometimes fall into that behaviour when my dps team mates are weak. If that happens, well the better team wins, in this case it will be the opponent team.

Go with one of your team mates if triangular formation is not possible, whichever is your better class or player also in terms of player cooperation.

In lower elo games, triangular formation is mostly not possible, where bard is in the backline.
Your team mates have never thought about how squishy you are or that it could be helpful to peel for you. So stay close enough to at least one of your team mates to use your skills.

And when somone is attacking you, your team mate will just notice there is another one to finish off.

I ve been trying out different strategies because the team was splitted on the map watching out for every team mate equally, because I had two team members to attend to. Dont do this! Its not possible.

As bard main I pretty much like to go with artis. They are slow and seem to have nuke all the time. You can also pull opponents into artis fire. Everyone likes to finish of a bard and will follow you, especially when you seem to run away.

Sorc is also pretty good to go as you can peel for each other very well.

Every class who can frontline for you or with you will do fine. So go with them. Well you should also take into consideration that you are not two against one and leave the other team mate with two. Depending on the situation, be there where two enemies are.

Though there are some opportunist/ dps support classes who needs to be pretty egoistic by class nature, at least at the beginning, as they watch out for themselves and are running around elsewhere, which is obviously their position in team, disctract whoever is in the opponents team to disctract.

This would be for example shadow hunter, deadeye, soulfist, glaivier. If there is no additional frontline it might be more difficult to support.

Gunslingers tend to be also everywhere, but they also are doing very very well with bards. And they are easy to babysit. They can frontline for you and when she s done you put a healing circle in reach of the other opponents and attack from afar while healing.

No comments to striker. They will just sit on you. So stay close or pull them to your team mates.

Finish off same targets to have the advantage being for example 3 vs 2. And keep looping.
Use your rhapsody whenever you can on your team mates. Its essential to reduce damage.
Stay away from shadow hunters. She will cancel your skills.
Watch out for someone who is about to flank you, coming back from cool down breaks. Either stun them or cut the way by using sonic vibration inbetween to get away.
If striker or glaivier is in team, I am pretty busy to use most of my skills on myself. They wont stop. So dont let them split you from your team.
If you are definitively about to die, dont use skill anymore. They might be cancelled and on cooldown then.
If you dont use them you will have them available with full hp and a better positioning to use them. I mean not in situations like last couple of sec. in game and you have rhapsody you could use on yourself. In that case use it.
For Bard good positioning is vital.
Dont know if rising is still possible in ranked as beginner player as bard with low participation in pvp and huge mmr differences in matchmaking and the season is going to end soon.

Bard is pretty dependable on team mates and communication. As you dont have that in single q with unexperienced players its pretty hard.

Edit: Cindydramg, grandmaster bard, points out that its harder to survive in course of the recent nerfs for the bard and to rescue your team mates.

Edit 2 - Videos:

Nr. 2: Just watched the first seconds.

Heavenly tune was a waste, because your team was attacked. Use it when you see your team is going to land a hit. And use it when team mates are in reach. When you use it while you are alone it wont help so much.
Then you leave your - what was it, squishy shadow hunter? - alone with two! ^^
She was still being attacked. And you march away making a curve in the opposite direction.

I would have either marched alongside the two on the left hand side to slow them down making hold in reach to use soundholic on one of them to give my team mate time to stand up and attack and force at least one of the other team members to dash away or withdraw.

You could also have pinged to draw attention to the sorc to come making and early awakening which should the opponents make to withdraw, so your team could structure and collect a bit more again.

I just see the sorc couldnt have come as she was stunned by the gunslinger. But I believe she also made a mistake in the beginning, running around in “payback” to the gunslinger who knocked her off the feet not seeing the danger on the left hand side.

Payback and hurt feelings might also be a beginner problem instead of focusing and seeing where the next danger is to be fended off or an opportunity is to attack.

After that, you come back to watch if the shadow hunter is still alive.

Else, when I am the lone surviver I try to lure the enemies to the sides so my team mates would have the possibility to get out savely out of their base. Mostly you are dead anyways if they are two-three versus one. Just stall them down as much as you can. They will hunt you, so best is to use march. They might stil be slowed while your two team mates are approaching.
I also do pen and paper rpgs where classes can make themselves invisible or hide in shadows.
So our team sometimes decides for the squishy chars not to use invisibility or to hide in shadows in certain situations as strategy to offer themselves as targets so the front fighters can survive and the damage can be distributed to many shoulders.

This might however be dependable on the knowledge over the skills of the opponent classes what area spells are still left. It might be helpful not to stay within range, but be visible like offering yourself as target and draw attention.

That might create the opportunity for your team mates to attack.

Which might be equivalent to the statement of GM Laufie that she is scared when her team members try to peel for her. Let her take the damage, cause she can heal herself.

Ouvertuere · August 27, 2022, 3:38pm

Stats:

Cindydramg, grandmaster bard, ran a couple of months ago the following stats:

swiftness 750, endurance or specialization 249. She believes spec is good until rank diamond, crit 1.

I also believe, if you are not good at hiting targets at the beginning, its better to run spec to load your meter more when you land a hit. The same counts for domination.

Most Russian players used to run domination and swiftness (like Laufielol who played on Russian servers).

Skills:
march 3-3
rhythm buckshot 3-2
sonic vibration 3-3-1
rhapsody of light 2-1-2
guardian tune 1-1-2
prelude of storm 2-1-3
heavenly tune 2-1-1
soundholic 2-1-2
symphonia (awakening skill)

Kinos · August 28, 2022, 1:55am

@sodcuda @Ouvertuere @Wseno What would be a good positioning? because almost all of my recently matchs i try to be in that “triangular” formation or having my enemies at the right or left side of my screen, but because of that my team mates just retreat and let me corned without being able to move right, example:

This is being like a recipe, in a lot of matchs this happens, if it isn’t that it is likely inside our respawn. should i just don’t give a fuck and be the frontline as a skish bard? because i can’t move there and it is very likely that me and another one will be combed together.

The only way i can think about escaping it is just run across them.

But then the result will likely be: them going after me and killing me easily or killing both my team mates and then later on me team mates calling me trash because why not.

It’s rare to see in Silver/Gold someone help me, if someone is on me well it’s likely to stay on me until i die, because i won’t be able to kill him and will be hard to ignore him and try to help others.

Wseno · August 28, 2022, 12:29pm

In this case where you get cornered, there are few things to do :

Using your awakening to take back the control of the map and push
Trying to run near the bottom while avoiding fighting
Trying to fight the enemy at the bottom with your mate

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Going to the top is also a possibility but not the best one because you won’t have a good FOV and an opponent will be in your back

Running across them is probably one of the worst choice and will often results in a wipe of your team

Ouvertuere · August 28, 2022, 3:45pm

Yes triangular formation is not possible in lower elo.

Thats why I recommend and also GM Bard Laufie recommends in lower elos just take the better class or the better player for you to play with.

And this is so true by my experience!

I changed something lately in strategy because I thought I had to tend to two people equally.
But as in lower elos the players are sometimes distributed all over the map and are out of sight.

Tending towards two people equally by that game style is not possible. So I started loosing games. Now that I pick the better class or player again, I start winning again.

And perfect, if the other one is also in sight and can be babysitted too.
But dont let one team member alone with two in this ranks.

The corner problem:

Yes its like Wesno said. Its better to stay in a row than being free food for the enemy.
Wesno also made very good positioning guides in another thread. Just search for it.

But hey, you will eventually find out, bards are a delicatesse, everyone wants to eat delicieuse bards with shields down, so get used to it. The first red one might engage you and the next one will follow.

Did the corner problem happen at the begining of the game?

I asked Wesno the same questions latetly.

And, we had a solution!

If it happens at the beginning, walk in front of your team mates making a curved line with march and draw to your team mates to the middle of the map. So its better to evade from the middle into different directions intead of being cornered.

Depending on the approach of the enemy switch on shields as late as possible. If your team mates are still hesitant, waste your shields to give them confidence.

Usually switch on the shields as late as possible. If they attack and are landing hits, heavenly tune first. After that shields.

So cornering at least at the beginning wont happen anymore.

Edit: Bard is only B tier in lower ranks and this is why (wild hunting of enemies, no structure, no knowledge of other classes, no communication, bard is free food then).

Its definitively getting better in higher ranks.