lets say right now theres 30k in t3 bots - assume each bot takes 3hs to get unas done each day for the full weekly prize (my guess is they just do dailies and cycle more bots but i’m giving very low estimate). that means in each week 240k bots have done full una cycle generating 960 million gold (8 cycles per day)
Mean while the active player base that can actually bus probably takes 10k-20k alts to bus, which generates 13-26 million gold. So since its an order of magnitude off what say you?
ok so a 2 man argos at 2.2k would be 13.200k gold but if they do it 7 days a week its 92.400k gold but let’s say their 15 groups doing busses a day thats 198.000k a day x7 that’s 1.386.000mill a week
i don’t know where you got the 26 mill from unless you add valtan and vykas then maybe but that’s a long stretch to 26 mill but how much can bots make in one day idk i don’t know how many bots there are i don’t know much gold they make in one day but me I believe bots make more gold then bussers in the game no I don’t have the number and like above idk if i had the number or if anyone had number on bots i would still say just off the bat that bots make more gold than whale combine in 1 day if the math is wrong someone correct me if not then …yep :3
That’s such a dumb take. You can only do argos once a week.
so what are your other characters for ???
can someone explain all the 3 ban bussers, bussing destroyed the game threads are made 3 players with nineveh face profile picture? is this some alt forum account thing?
i have no idk my friend
Even if you account for other characters you only have 6 gold earning characters so you still wouldn’t be able to earn gold every day 7 days a week. So it’s dumb no matter how you want to spin it.
no am on the thinking of once a day kinda thing if you read it am high balling the math to say 6 characters that are at least 1460 or higher but its rough math thou but i get the point thou plus this isnt for ppl who are looking for bus this is ppl who are the bussers doing argos if you have 15 characters you can do argos 15 times a day but after 6 you wont get gold from it
If you want some rough math and compare bot printed gold market and bus printed gold market I can give you some rough numbers.
In a very simplistic scenario where you have 20 000 players as such:
And you consider the following:
Then you end up with a market like this:
1445:
(4000 * 10500) + (4000 * 4785) = 42 million + 19.1 million = 61.1 million
1415:
(12000 * 6000) + (12000 * 4785) = 72 million + 57.4 million = 124.4 million
1370 without bus:
(4000 * 2900) + (4000 * 3120) = 11.6 million + 12.4 million = 24 million
1370 with bus:
(4000 * 4700) + (4000 * 3120) = 18.8 million + 12.4 million = 31.2 million
So the weekly market and gold generation would be:
209.5 million without bussing and 216.7 with bussing. That’s something like a 3% difference in a hypothetical scenario that like extremely favors the inflation argument.
Now you do the same math, but you have another 20000 (50%) 1370 ilvl bots just doing unas tasks. **That would add another 62.4 million to the market / week. Which is bot generated garbage gold **
So 279.1 million in total with the 62.4 million bot generated gold being around 20% of the market.
I may have made a mistake as I’m a bit tired but you get the idea. There’s no question about which one is worse for the market and obviously the argos gold % in our market is much much much lower than in my example. You can add and account for more bussers and alts but the percentage would only get lower since those characters would also earn gold via dungeons diluting the overall gold pool even further. So yeah. I don’t think OP really thought this through.
Why are you talking in 3rd person? Or did you forget to switch accounts to try and backup your own thread.
AAAAHHHHH THANK YOU MY BROTHER AMMA do some good numbers with this
This argument only works if you assume every extreme to favor your argument and that without bussing, no 1370 player would complete Argos.
Even if paid bussing didn’t exist, statics and guilds choose to run their friends and their low level alts through Argos so they’re printing gold anyway.
To deny you do this is either to lie or to claim specifically that you have no guildmates, no static, and no friends or that you intentionally refuse to help anyone who calls you such so you assert you are a sociopath just to make a point in a video game.
Further, I could also assert that in your hypothetical scenario, that the game has mechanisms that balances out this printed gold by using player stupidity.
Players frequently sell items for 2 gold rather than 1 gold or 3 gold. When you sell an item for 2g, you don’t make an extra gold and the buyer pays the 2g so 1g is automatically lost to market deposit. Therefore, the millions of gold is balanced by people being stupid and selling millions of items for 2g.
That’s some really bad analytic skills and reading comprehension right there.
I have made an extremely biased calculation because if you can show that even under extreme circumstances the amount is insignificant then it’s very easy to go from there and conclude that in the real ig market it’s even more negligible. I bus myself and do free carries and am 100% convinced that it actually doesn’t have any effect on the market whatsoever. You can disagree with what I came up with by showing YOUR calculations no need to resort calling other posters sociopaths you know.
1% inflation is inflation sure, that one I can’t deny. Even 0.1% inflation is inflation right. Does this have to do anything with BC prices going from 400 to 1000? Absolutely fking not lol
That being said I don’t think the auction house fee on 2g item balances anything either. It’s just insignificant as well. 99% of the people arguing about these things in these threads can’t sit down for 5 minutes to think these things through honestly.
There’s a reason that the devs are ok with it from an economical point and that is that they have calculated the amount of gold generated by bussing into the game via gold sinks ect. If it were a serious issue they would have addressed it years ago.
I mean its not really speculation. While we do not have exact numbers we can make a fairly good stab based on the amount of gold that people are buying regularly that bots are generating a STAGGERING amount of gold. We’re talking probably billions per day - compared to maybe millions generated by busses. Also bots are not being restricted by weekly lockouts. Its really not even remotely comparable.
I mean this is a side effect of RMT. It has nothing to do with bussing. AGS could have cracked down on this 6 months ago and it would have slowed things considerably - but here we are. The damage is done. Banning bussing is not going to change this.
Part of the problem right now is the 3 day holding period. No one wants to deal with that. AGS made a tactical error with the implementation of that system. Fraud prevention should never effect the front end of your game - this is something that should have been addressed via the backend with additional security measures. No one wants to spend money on gold only to be told “Welp we dont know if you’re going to chargeback or not so we’re just gonna go ahead and punish you as a prophylactic measure”
My guess here is that they KNEW that this was going to dramatically impact sales which is why they suddenly shifted their policy to start cracking down on RMT. Otherwise virtually everyone looking to buy gold would have gone to a third party site without a second thought. Also probably part of the reason player counts have started to drop off sharply in the past few weeks.
You can say that all of this is due to bussing but that is just factually inaccurate. Bussing is one of the few things that is holding this game together right now. Overall quality of life in this game is abysmal for an MMO in the Western market. The last thing that we need right now is to have that QOL lowered even further by making alting harder. Future content is being designed to be much harder to bus anyways. This is just a way for people to get their alts up to the point that they can actually play future content - whether they are willing to go that extra step to learn how to play those alts is another matter entirely.
I think one of the main reason for high BC prices is that there’s not much incentive to swipe right now. Whales have their legendary books and 1500++ characters so really the only thing they can swipe for is things like card packs.
Now this could be a bit different if they added Yoz’s Jar which you guys were so against so it likely will keep rising until they add another chase. So at least until Brel for sure.
In your hypothetical, we only look at Agros bussing, but this is happening widespread at all raids. So the gold being generated/impacted is actually a lot higher.
You also assume these people are going to earn this gold on their own without bussers (which is fine, it’s your hypothetical). But the point of the bus as we know it… is b/c people can’t do this content for the gold, for whatever reasons. Else, everyone would rather get full profit, etc.
So we can also assume right? that these people rely on bussers else they aren’t going to make any gold at all. Then It’ll look more like this…
1445 without bus:
(4000 * 0) + (4000 * 4785) = 0 million + 19.1 million = ̶6̶1̶.̶1̶ ̶m̶i̶l̶l̶i̶o̶n̶ (now 19.1 million)
1445 with bus:
(4000 * 10500) + (4000 * 4785) = 42 million + 19.1 million = 61.1 million (same)
1415 without bus:
(4000 * 0) + (12000 * 4785) = 0 million + 57.4 million = ̶1̶2̶4̶.̶4̶ ̶m̶i̶l̶l̶i̶o̶n̶ (now 57.4 million)
1415 with bus:
(12000 * 6000) + (12000 * 4785) = 72 million + 57.4 million = 124.4 million (same)
1370 without bus: (we be nice and assume they can do P1)
(4000 * 800) + (4000 * 3120) = 3.2 million + 12.4 million = ̶2̶4̶ ̶m̶i̶l̶l̶i̶o̶n̶ ̶ (now 15.6 million)
1370 with bus:
(4000 * 4700) + (4000 * 3120) = 18.8 million + 12.4 million = 31.2 million
209.5 million without bussing and 216.7 with bussing. now looks… 92.1 million without bussing and 216.7 with bussing.
This is a difference of… 81% in this other hypothetical where people wouldn’t have been able to generate any gold without the bussers. Obviously, 81% is high b/c it assumes everyone needs bussing, but even if it was 40%, 20%, 15% … I’m showing that 3% is an extremely low ballpark number for downplaying how bussing is causing inflation and its impact on non-bussers. There are a lot of hypotheticals between 3% and 80%.
Plus, in the scenario of bots… even if we assume 50% bots? They aren’t injecting raw gold into the game world immediately like bussers are. They must wait for orders to be filled so this gold can be released and may not always be influencing the market.
I’m just saying, the situation ain’t as nice as you are portraying it. Feel free to criticize, b/c I’m also only half-assing this. Personally, I think bussing is fine but in the long run, I think it’s bad for the game. It’s going to get worse for new, casuals or people who never bus. They’ll just have less and less buying power as seen already in KR.
your argument for vykas and valtan is wrong even if they are at ilvl of the corresponding content, if they don’t have the skills to complete it with bussing it is generating 3000-4500 gold .
We don’t have proof, but you do?
Ok so basically the problem is that if you consider any other raid other than argos you technically are not printing any gold that shouldn’t be there. Because you need to have the ilvl to enter those raids and the only thing that changes is that you are just not playing somebody else is clearing it for you. So it’s gold you could earn anyway and the gold is just changing owners.
Another issue with that reasoning is that if you consider RMT and look at the bans you can see that people are getting something like a 4 months ban for 400k or 8 months for 800k and so on and so forth. So if you have 1 RMT-er like that and you take just 400k that is the equivalent of 222 argos buses and it’s just one person and only 400k. If you have 10 RMT-ers that’s already 2222 argos buses and if you take 100 that’s 22222 argos buses.
Now you could say that not all that bot gold enters the market and some of them get caught and banned and that is true. But in my example the bot to player ratio was 1:2 and what we saw in our version is the bot to player ratio was something like 1:6 at some point. That would actually only happen if the demand for RMT gold is extremely high and or the prevention methods are really really good.
If you look at the peaks and have been following this for some time you can clearly see that the prevention methods were pretty much non existent for the first 2 months. And the bots were not time gated like in my example because it took SG 2 months to even remove things like the gold rewards from the pet quest. So bots were printing gold by the minute and were not time gated whatsoever. This is why bot farms look like bitcoin mines because the only limitation they have is computational power and not weekly lock outs.
I don’t think the two is comparable at all. The only way bussing can be an issue is if people start making 5-10 accounts using the express events and powerpasses and then using something like multiboxing they start taking weekly buses and then sending the gold to their mains. That is actually an issue in KR but I would also say it’s not traditional bussing that’s straight up cheating and as such it is against the ToS.
Wait so you will have gear after 20 busses?
You mean after 20 weeks?
Half a year?
btw Valtan and Vykas busses don’t print money actually. It’s only the Argos one.