Can we please stop accusing every game of being P2W?

This argument has been coming up post after post after post on the forums and I feel we can all agree that it is getting quite tiresome.

We’ve seen and been told the stories from every angle, F2P players hitting high t3 in a couple weeks because they just rolled almost non-stop successes, whales shelling out and barely getting past t1 because they want to take the easy route instead actually playing, and everything in between. That is the nature of RNG. Does paying give you an advantage? I mean, yeah, of course, paying for another attempt at honing is 1 more attempt than someone who didn’t pay. However, this is clearly not a very major advantage.

I played mmos through the birth of micro transactions. I watched as game after game put in a store and offered weapons and armor sets and accessories and on and on that were always WAY more powerful than anything you could get by just playing for free or the sub fee…but they were always stupid expensive to purchase. It got to the point that games were unplayable. That is p2w…not this minor advancement chance stuff.

So please…just stop. It’s nowhere near p2w.





what about gvg, are these equalized for everyone?


“paying for another attempt at honing is 1 more attempt than someone who didn’t pay. However, this is clearly not a very major advantage.”

I mean…sure…take it out of context. Just because it is an advantage doesn’t mean it’s some game breaking pay to win scheme

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what a joke , wait till you see +20$ go to waste with one click.

how many f2p players went to Argos ? it’s less then 0.001% of the f2p players
the fact is , some of the lucky people(not all) get surprised that others are talking about the p2w aspect of the game so they come here and be the loudest white knights

even your post contradicts your overall view lol


The game is more p2w in our region then it has in any if you take into the content we have unlocked.


the game is p2w, just deal with it

knowing the game is p2w doesn’t stop me from playing without spending anything to advance


I think the problem is this game isn’t pay2win as many assert.

It’s pay2whale.

Yes money can get you ahead, but the amount you have to spend to achieve actual power is absurd. I’m honestly fine if some idiot wants to payout 5 or 10 or 15k in order to achieve a stupid ilvl advantage. Whatever. The fact that I don’t and can still play the game fine, makes that fine. However, if I want to spend a hundred or two hundred dollars and achieve power pray for me, because I might as well have burnt that money.


Like all things in a Language, a term (in this case, the term “Pay to Win”) evolves from how it originated.

Today, P2W is used to describe absolutely, positively any advantage brought by real-world money, no matter how big or little, and no matter if it affects competitiveness or not. If money reduces honing time (also called “tedium” or “boredom”) then it’s P2W (you won “time”). If it has any effect on the market and lets them earn more gold in the AH, then it’s P2W (you won “gold”). If it does affect PvP at all (maybe this GvG I hear about), then it’s P2W (you won "power earlier than the competition).

It is why people generally accept cosmetics, storage space, character slots, and other similar things as NOT P2W, because those types of things can’t really be said to grant any sort of material advantage. I mean, more character slots = more alts = more mats, and more storage is great too. But I think most people give stuff like that a pass. But historically, EXP boosts, loot boosts, and any other “time shortener” boost in a competitive game where time matters is considered P2W these days. Clinging to the old definition won’t really get you very far.


Games have been pay to win as far as i can remember. Still seen f2p advance victorious. Some people just don’t have enough time due to life but want to experience end game content faster. For instance i work a full time salary job that i am also on call for 24/7. I’ve spent money on the game. More than i’d like to but less than i expected to with amazons/smilegates ratio on my way to 1370. Doesn’t mean i am better than anyone. I got lucky on hones between 1340 and 1370. Had maybe 3 pity hones max. My weapon only took 3 hones to get from +13 to +15. I have a little under 400 hours and played since the founders start. When chat wasnt filled with bots and people were way nicer. Does not mean i am better than anyone. My roster level is only 81 and my stronghold lvl 25. I die to more circle mechanics(looking at you roullete/pie and rotating laser beam attacks) than anyone i’ve ever met in my life. I do my best to study mechanics first before any instance. Wether you are p2w or f2p does not mean shit when it comes to skill or mechanics. I’ve seen f2p cause wipes and p2p aswell(me aswell… unfortunately). Micro transactions will not go away when there is a market for it. The only ones i dislike are people who buy from bots. Ya litteraly supporting that garbage and making the starting area repulsive. Tbh this community isn’t that bad either. Right now we are still establishing how this game is going to be played in the west and we should be working together not against each other. At least those not breaking t.o.s. should not be our target.

Rambling stoned dude thats been playing mmo/rpgs for 20+ years.

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This game isn’t p2w, it’s p2gamble.

Players who don’t pay extra have a couple lottery tickets per day, others buy hundreds. Too bad for them tha those are still lottery ticket and they might not win.


I am pretty curious how do we define ‘win’ in this game… A player who paid to have a higher item lvl could play more content in this game which sounds like a DLC for me. … As a main PVP player, the P2W discussion in this game doesn’t make sense to me.

oh no not this topic again :sob:

Lmao this is the most p2w game


Why is this a discussion?
AGS, the publisher, called the game p2w.


Man there’s an operative word there doing a lot of work that you’re ignoring. But you do you friend.

Idk, if something FEELS P2W for a big part of the playerbase, it most likely is.

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Saying they admitted it and saying the playerbase feels like it, is two completely different things.

People show of what they did regarding rapport etc. How much did it cost you? The fact that the game is blatantly P2W, takes every pride from an achievement away. It will so now and in the future.

I still enjoy the game I play and can be happy about my achievements. It´s still the most P2W game I played in 20 years.


I’m guessing you have never played fifa