Not every class is the same. Zerk/sorc is clearly a higher tier than all other classes. Not because it’s easier to play, not because big dmg in T3. Those are the best classes against the same ilevel content. Yes, u can over lvl for every content, so technically that does mean every class is viable to some extent. However, they’re simply not viable in the ilevel they are in. There’s engravings/gems u get later on in T3(purple/legendary and gem 6+) that help alts that are in T2. But that does not make them the same! Because u’re over lvling them for the content they’re in.
Clearing T3 content with the best classes makes the fight fast and smooth. Having a couple wardancers/gunslingers/strikers/strappers/etc reduces the pace and smoothness of a fight because they have massive combo down time.(that means they do 1 or 2 combos and are waiting for the cool downs) That doesn’t mean they can’t clear it but it’ll take longer and increases the chances of messing up mechanics that could wipe the team/raid. This will overall make those classes less desired in a end game team comp and ultimately start making people look at ur gear to see if u’re worth inviting. They have this same problem in korea so don’t u dare point to them for excuses.
Now with that said, I believe everyone should enjoy whatever class they want. But let’s stop pretending every class is viable for the ilevel they are to the ilevel they’re doing. Because they’re simply not.
If all you’re comparing is raw damage, you’re not necessarily wrong. But luckily this game isn’t just about raw damage. There’s a give and take with all these things in this game. Sure berserkers do big damage, but not a lot of ppl want them for legion raids because they bring no buffs to the party (almost all zerkers take the self buff). Also some classes are just flat out better earlier in the game and some get exponentially better with later gear and stats, classes like wardancer and soulfist come to mind here. Do those classes feel bad to play in tier 1 and 2 and early t3? Absolutely, but if you look at late game in KR they are monsters and they are very valued because of what they bring to the raid. So basically… you’re wrong. Every class is viable, just not equal in terms of DPS
Even after saying don’t use korea as a excuse someone did in the very first reply…
If u compare 4 sorcs to a gunlancer and 3 sorcs who do u think will finish a guardian raid faster? The 4 sorcs obviously, this is true in all tiers of the game. But dmg isn’t the only factor in a fight, of course. The difference start happening when u start adding other factors such as how often does a team have to move or kite around the boss, how often does a team stagger or knock a boss, who is shielding the high damage, or who is debuffing or buffing. But even with those factors there’s still a overall meta in team comps for end game content.
Obviously, just dmg alone isn’t making a meta comp, but having a gunlancer over a paladin, having a sorc over a wardancer is a massive difference in a boss fight or raid. Yes u can over lvl for T3 content as well, we saw how quickly 1400 ilevel whales smacked argos around like T2 players against first T1 boss. The game forces u to do one of two things, over level for a fight or switch to a more viable class.
That’s not true. Idk why you’re saying don’t use Korea, when they are the meta and have had years to figure this stuff out. And it’s not like they haven’t balanced and won’t continue to balance classes. 4 sorcs buffs don’t stack. There’s a reason you don’t see ppl drafting 4 sorcs or 4 berserkers in the legion raids lol. You need to have a nice split of buffs and some classes have higher burst windows and some have more sustained dmg and some offer more utility and buffs for the super heavy hitters. It’s a synergy game and it’s a team game. No one is going to turn you away because you’re playing a particular class. They’re going to turn you away because of not having optimal stats/engravings/game knowledge.
Again, of course pure dmg isn’t going to determine a meta. Yes, u can be easily turned away if u’re not playing a particular class. If u aren’t over ilevel or using a title to show that u have lots of game knowledge u will be turned away. As of right now, no one knows what meta will be viable for late game until more F2P players get there. Whales over leveling the end game won’t be meta for long. Nor is the korean’s version of the game because as amazon has clearly shown they AREN’T going a 1 to 1 patch release of korea’s version of the game. So as of right now, not every class is viable, and no not every class will be viable later on.
We have the balance korea have.
The only and main difference for argos vs korean is… relic jewelry/gem.
They can reach 5 line, we are to 3 line hardly 4
We have the same balance, what is difference are the content (and so, the stuff dropping)
I did quote this specific sentence,
So you consider in korea, where they have the same balance we have and the stuff in the end we will have, all class are not viable ?
Because it is nice to say that “don’t refer to korea” but what makes you think there are so much differences between them and us ?
You’re delusional. We’re on the same balance patch as KR until they get their new balance patch in a couple weeks. The meta is established in another country and it’s not going to change until we get caught up. And even then KR players tend to be more efficient and better than most western players. You can ask any KR player, you’re not gonna get turned away by class my dude. If you’re getting turned away here because of class then they don’t know what they’re doing and you’re better off not joining if in the matchmaking it say “No wardancers allowed” lol. Whales are always going to be overleveled but things like hell mode will eventually come out for all players and that truly equalizes all and it’s a matter of skill at that point.
wardancer is one of the best all around classes in this game. Im sorry you feel this game isnt incredible in its pve balance. But when i read “Having a couple wardancers/gunslingers/strikers/strappers/etc reduces the pace and smoothness of a fight because they have massive combo down time.” it showed a lack of research. Sorry
Imagine saying wardancer is bad LOL
No damage in T1 compared to mayhem zerker=bad. Didn’t you know that! Come on man!
In fairness wardancer needs more investment to see her worth, whereas Sorc feels a lot more ready out of the box. But both of these scenarios are covered by the fact that you won’t be left out because of class, but because of setup. Nobody taking grudge 1 no tripod sorc just because she’s a sorc.
Korea is in T3, they start in T3 and are still in T3. The difference between the west and korea is that no one f2p is in late game T3 like koreans are. The content is not the same in each version because neither player base is on the same level in terms of roster level, gems level, etc. Yes, I know some F2P players are in early T3, but even with that said no the levels of difficulty is not the same. The reason being that they have far more time in T3 than anyone as of right now has in T3. They have more roster wide stats/advantages compared to most people in the west. THAT is the difference. Buffs and nerfs to our version to compare to korea isn’t the same because we’re NOT even experiencing the same game. THAT is why I said don’t bother bring them up.
I’m at a loss here my guy. Of course we don’t have the same content, but you can look at ppl who play on the KR version to see what the “meta” is and I’ve watched videos of whales and F2P players in KR and no one is getting denied because of class. You might be denied for other things that they might want you to have to have an efficient run. Just the other day I saw that EndieM8 couldn’t get into a raid because it had on the matchmaking that they wanted to fully awakened Light of salvation set. Not because you need it, but for efficiencies sake. And that’s within any players right to do.
I really have to disagree with you. I have a variety of classes T2 and above and they’re all capable of clearing their on level content. Minus my Bard in Tower but I know that will be fixed later. I play both sorc and wardancer and they both kick ass, equally to my sharpshooter (despite the memes) and my gunslinger (with her higher skill cap.)
I think if you are seeing a disparity then perhaps it IS because of player error.
So… the korean have harder difficulty for fight, and because fight are harder, the fact that zerk/sorc are stronger (as said in your first post) make it less revelant…
And having only 10% cdr - 15%dmg gems instead of 16/24 or 20/30% change a lot the balance
And the fact that WHALES are more stuff than F2P change the balance ? ? ?
HOW can the fact that whales being overstuff can change the balance of a fucking game ? how can the fact that whales are 1415 ilvl makes meta change ?
Korean get 5 line, and get clearly over soft cap for some stats, here ok, it impact balance, because of thid, some class are not so good in t1/t2.
But… all you did list x_x…
Roster level, which make more healthpoint and more attack power, but there is no cap bind to attack power (or i missed anything ? )
U’re at a loss because ur focused on over leveling for the content. Level each class to the level of content they’re doing. There’s a difference. F2P players arent whales and we aren’t korea’s whales or even korea’s f2p.
Once more F2P players get into late game T3 u will see a shift in meta, because no one will want u if u aren’t using viable classes. I know this because I’m seeing it happen in late game T2. No one is accepting any class that’s not viable. U either have to have high ilevel or proof of knowledge of the fight. This is why I said don’t compare us to koreans, we’re not there yet and once we do WE WILL SET THE META. But it’ll be based (hopefully) on time cleared than classes.
As of right now in our current version, there is a meta for classes. That’s what I’m referring to and I’m talking about. Not every class is viable for late T2 or early T3.
Honestly i think youre giving too much credit to the "meta. " I play artillerist and have cleared content just fine with all sorts or group comps. The important part is how much knowledge the player has with their class and whatever fight they are doing. Seen crap beserkers and seen awesome wardancers…if a character nows how to optimize uptime and avoid mechanics they will out dps anyone who doesnt regardless of class
Lol this topic is stupid. What a dumb hill to die on.