Carries Are Good For The Game - Argos/ Nightfox Being Gated At 1370 Is Not

The same patch we are now is vanilla T3 honing rates, with some differences. The biggest difference, and the most game breaking one IMO, is the ilvl to access Argos and Nightfox to be able to farm out decent T3 abyss and guardians is much, much higher.

In party finder, in the same game as it was now, you could access these things at 1345. This meant we could get our 1340 gear earlier on our main, and we could viably have alts that actually farmed T3 and not half T2.

From 1340-1370 (which is a long time for most people) your abyss is half T2, T2 gives you no relevant materials, and only a couple of rolls on T2 accessories that smart people will never buy, also 100g per dungeon. That means from 1340-1370, we are making 500 less gold from abyss per week, per character, as well as missing out on ~112 Great Honour Leapstones per character.

The raw silver cost alone will timegate and stop people from honing alts to 1370. I am aware there is research, but, to progress an alt to 1370, it is ~5mil silver. Rounding out to 100g per hone (as it starts at 70 and goes up to 120) it also costs ~9k gold. I don’t know anyone that makes 9k gold and 5mil silver in excess. This means your main has to stand still, or you are sinking and going negative. Just to have one alternate character that can properly farm out T3.

Now, there’s 2 reasons to do this:

  1. You want people to spend money to progress
  2. You don’t like carries, and think it is unhealthy

I would hope that the progression is not P2W, as AGS+SG have assured us they never want it to feel that way, so let’s address the 2nd point.

Carries are good for the game.

Carries allow F2P and people with slower progression to have a guaranteed clear of things despite their resource. A carry will never cost so much that it wouldn’t be worth it, if you don’t want to be carried, then you can choose not to be.

They give those on top a way to use their power. They can lead a party where they can swing around their big weapons and look cool, doing fat DPS % while they make a little extra gold doing it.

Having the party finder ilvl reduced for the, what I would say, is required content to operate through T3 with a steady progression, only helps the game.

Carries are a great thing. They are only good to all players. Please consider addressing the deadzone between 1340-1370 by carefully readjusting the minimum ilvl for now. I believe the track of T3 alt progression F2P is much too harsh, and I believe everyone would benefit from such a change. Lost Ark’s player retention and new players, the players on top, and everyone trying to get alts farming out T3 properly so we can slowly progress to 1415.

Thank you for reading.

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Nightfox yoho is at 1370 instead of 1355 cause they drop great honor leapstones, even in KR it was like that. So in a way, it makes sense to move it up to 1370 since you will be fighting ingrexion till you are at 1370 anyways. In a way we have a bandaid fix for the deadzone with the event mats injection and now South Vern next week. And just to let you know bussing has been adjusted to make it less possible in future content.

The sources I have seen put it at 1345 for party finder, and it was still Great Honour farm, and from Argos allowed you to get 1340 gear, as well as disenchanting the blood gave you Great Honour. I also believe it was only changed to 1370 after the 20% honing rate buffs (the same with the T2 abyss gold being nerfed, that was after, but for some reason we have it before). The reason they did that was because of gold inflation in their version. Is this wrong?

I don’t think that carries or bussing is bad. I think it’s good for everyone. I think removing it and raising minimum ilvls will only hurt the game. If you balance around top 1% doing “too well”, then 99% suffers and it makes people think it’s P2W.

out of curiosity since i have never did anything apart from maybe field bosses under recommended ilvl, at what item level are we required to enter nightfox/argos in pf rn?

Same as matchmade, 1370.

Means we have to go +15, and makes it really hard to get alts there, even if you do it’s going to take ~2 weeks of farm to start recuperating your losses, and we only have a month to Valtan…

Seems like our only choice is to make gold and push up that way, but that’s incredibly hard to balance as F2P, and a whole lot less efficient. If you put in enough time on enough characters, IMO you should be able to slowly progress your main and access Argos/ Nightfox on alts without going negative or standing still.

Alt progression in high t3 (1340-1370) is almost exclusive whales and the f2p tryhards. Hypothetically speaking, if they lower the entry barrier to Argos to a more obtainable ivl like 1340, then everyone will be rushing to create 1340 smurfs to get carried through p1-3. I think the current events are just fine as a catch up mechanic.

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I think getting a bunch of free mats all at once diminishes the value of farming them, and makes you feel like the farm you have done is worth less. I also believe, that injecting materials in this way is a sneaky tactic to give people a taste of what getting instant materials feels like, and makes them more likely to spend.

I believe, making it possible to farm Argos and Nightfox on alts will not only help overall progression for those trying now, but make the game feel better for F2P, and P2P, as well as reward people better for time spent.

The event mats do not achieve this in my mind, quite the opposite. I don’t feel good, when I enter an instance once, and then I get handed 1200 free mats that would take me an entire week to farm on multiple characters. I just want the progression to be more steady and linear overall. I guess that might hurt their P2P model though, even though they say it isn’t, it sure feels like it is pay to progress. Especially just before 1370, and going to 1415, simply because you can’t access the decent farm viably on alts, or you can’t even access it at all, and you can be stuck on one or two upgrades for weeks through no fault of your own, just bad RNG.

Yoho was 1370 but accessible at 1340 (or even less iirc). Also it’s not that they dont like carries, they re doing this because it slows down gamers progression. If players progress too fast they ll have to release content at a faster pace. And lastly it makes money. People will whale to erach 1370, because with or without events it’s still “hard” to get to 1370 (even if its achievable in 2 weeks now, not everyone wants to wait 2 weeks)

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Yeah, I agree. It’s just the raw silver and gold cost for getting alts there that’s really the problem.