Discussion: Gatekeeping, gear requirements, and new players

I’d like to kick off a friendly discussion about what the title says because I see a lot of various threads on it but more surrounding people that have been in T3 a while, have high-ish level characters and are still being gated. We need to discuss and advocate on behalf of newer players too.

Whats going to happen is that a new player see’s this beautiful game with a ton to do. They spend 15-30 hours leveling through the campaign at their pace or use a gifted powerpass (when working lol). With the honing buffs and a fair amount of effort, they push through T1/T2. Throwing it out there, maybe 1-2 months after picking up the game, they are in Punika. The fun begins.

Oreha/Oreha Hm… We see rainbow stats, 1x engravings + 5 pips on crisis evation, explosive expert, etc. Sigh. Going to be tough. Group disbands at some point, maybe they get lucky in MM and some chad carries them through later.

They hear about raids and muster enough courage to click on the Matchmaking button. Hopefully they don’t get into an 8man full of people like them and some 3x3, 4x3 engraving chads and alts can carry. Great. Maybe this person watched a video, maybe not. This person runs argos for a few weeks and begins to understand.

Now its time for valtan… They realize once in a blue moon a group can be formed via matchmaking but now they are forced to use the dreaded and toxic party finder. They aren’t being accepted into groups. Or are they? One of two things happen, they are never accepted into a group, or they are. If by some miracle they are, and clear the raid, its a big confidence booster. Now this person can do vykas in a few more weeks.

Vykas…They dont even bother with matchmaking because they know no one is running it on MM. They have enough brains to potentially watch some videos on vykas. They apply to groups and get denied 100% of the time because Vykas IS very difficult, there IS a lot going on, and the NA/EU communities DO have overly high requirements (KR streamers confirm this). They realize they hit a wall. They don’t have what it takes to lead a group. They meander around horizontal content for a few days or a few weeks. They quit.

This is a 100% real scenario for new players. Argos luls them into a false sense of hope because a few people can carry that even in MM. Maybe by a stroke of luck they can get into a Valtan NM. Vykas is a hard stop. Absolute hard stop unless they are on their A game and take raiding seriously to any degree.

What do we do about these players? Let them run into that wall until they quit?

Do we create some a$$ version of WoW’s LFR where raids are easier for MM pugs but rewards are significantly reduced?
Do we create a ‘mentor’ system where you sign up in game GUI as a mentor, get rewards for that but youre helping newer players (not talking about bussing).
Do we create more Oreha HM style content for players to obtain materials, at a slower pace than even normal raid, so that they can continue to progress and feel like they are doing something moving forward?

Or is the simple answer ‘Do Nothing’. Let the weak players bleed off of your game and take their wallets with them? Along with their wallets, they take their opinions of the game and spread that around. Now, I understand theres a rehearsal mode for clown with some rewards, but is that enough? It might be daunting enough for some of these players to get into even valtan groups, let alone vykas. Is Smilegate considering a rehearsal mode for these?

Opening the floor to discussion!

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Its no different then real life really.

Anyone that is “serious” about joining end game will do AT LEAST a bare minimum of research both on the class & raids themselves.

Leveling Thru 1302->1370 a new player can quite easily be at least 1x3 + 1x2 just from the 2 +9’s slots and the stone before any accessories are even considered.

Plus as end game gets pushed further beyond 1370, the less pressure gets put onto the early 1370-1400. Valtan and Vykas Normal both dont require anything above 3x3 which is achieveable from the gear drops you get in Argo’s and Oreha.

To expect a new player to get valtan/vykas ready in <2weeks is wrong to think as well. Even when the honing buff is extended to 1415, a new player wont have the materials to hone THAT fast just from playing in general so they should have plenty of time to gear to AT LEAST 3x3 without even resorting to the AH for anything major.

And current groups is JUST like real life applying for a job. When you put in an application for a job, your essentially putting yourself on a piece of paper. That company will not know anything about your ACTUAL Real Skills so you have to make yourself presentable on that piece of paper.

LA is no different for party finder, your only as good as what your character sheet shows (your sheet is your resume). Since there are millions of DPS out there, leaders can be choosy on the applications and try to find the best to succeed. This is exactly what happens in real life.

As end game gets pushed further down, the earlier stuff starts getting less amount of people thus the “range” of acceptance increases. Also to add, both HM Valtan and HM Vykas are not even required to do so nor will Clown be required since all clown does is UPGRADE the set bonuses.

Raiding in this game is too hard for casual player. I know because i am one. I played for a year on ru before and never went higher than 1415 as i didn’t see the point in doing so - as all content after Oreha is limited entirely to those ultra hard raids. I can barely do Argos and the game wants me to do even more hardcore stuff??? I never even attempted Voltan as it would require me to go through 7 rings of hell, first memorizing the mech watching youtube videos for an hour or so, and then wipe my team for N-times before i start to recognize and react in time to bosses attacks… And I don’t want to do any of that. I just want to chill and watch my character do some sick combos.

I wish that raid content was optional, that you would be able to buy/sell raid gear on the market (like it was for Argos gear on ru). And i wish we had more casual pve content like Oreha dungeon but for 1415+. I just don’t want to even deal with this hardcore bs toxic swamp. Raids are not fun, they are just stress generators.


Why is it that in your head a new player equates to a mentally challenged person who is unable to do research and, y’know, find things out on their own? You created this weird idea that a new player is basically a child whose hand need to be held.


Why do you want to make the game to be as annoying as real job? That is so dumb.
The endgame in LA is so bad for casuals…
I played Blade & Soul 2016-2019 and it was way way waaaay better there. Once a newer raid was released the older ones were nerfed in difficulty. You want to play hardcore - do the latest raid. You want to just chill and enjoy yourself - do any content that is older than 6 months and you’ll be fine. Perfect system for everybody.

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Ah, unfortunately there is always going to be the side that love gatekeeping/bussing and those against it.

It will be hard to now remove it since its happened for so long and there is definitely going to be a struggle for newer players even some actual current players in T3 with some pretty decent load outs, so its not really new player specific either.

I won’t do it, if I have space in groups and someone wants a go for the firs time, then I’ll let them. My guild knows not to kick up a fuss for first timers or they are gone, we’ve all been there.

I just want groups I lead to have fun and enjoy themselves more than anything.

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IF your trying to go thru the party finder, its all you got. Use the random MM button otherwise. Its how party finder works, just like applying for a job IRL.

Anyone that says that if they had a choice between 2 people that applied at the same time
1480 - 4x3, Level 5 Gems, LWC not awakened, level 2/3 tripods
1480 - 5x3 + 1, Level 8 Gems, LoS 18 awakening, level 4 tripods

99% of the people would chose the 2nd option when you present both at the same time. This is human nature and GL on changing that. Nothing against the first one and the first one could very easily be the “better” player over the 2nd one. But there is ZERO way of telling from what is essentially a “sheet of paper” put in front of you.

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If i want to apply for a job IRL - i would go and do that.
What i want to do here - is to play the game.

Ah but your applying to join a raid, same thing. Thats what you do when you click on the “join request” in the party finder. If you were just “casualy” playing, you’d click the random MM button then.

I don’t wanna dwelve much into specifics but this is a horrible comparison.

Many different job fields recruit based on certain specifics beyond “Technical proficiency” and if a job IRL was like PF, you would have no junior or entrance positions at all considering the requirements people are imposing so badly.

Simple example, I work in IT and interviewers do care for the candidate’s soft skills and the lack of these can lead to rejection. A big number of candidates get rejected for reasons beyond technical knowledge despite one being “Better”.

This is a game where you can have those specifics stats, be a GL/Supp and it can tip the balance in your favor. I’d agree on this for Vykas but seeing requirements like 4x3 & 1415+ for Argos is unnecessary.

And how much i am going to be paid for my labor then? (in euro)

How do you propose a fix. You cannot change people mentaility. And you didn’t answer my question

Your presented with a choice between 2 people that applied at the same time.
1480 - 4x3, Level 5 Gems, LWC not awakened, level 2/3 tripods
1480 - 5x3 + 1, Level 8 Gems, LoS 18 awakening, level 4 tripods

This is all the info you get. 99% of people will choose the 2nd Option when presented with both at the SAME time. Its not gatekeeping, its choosing the best option presented on paper.

What you didn’t know in the choice is that the first guy is a pro gamer and the 2nd player is just a mediocre player. But you dont know that.

When your presented with 10 players and one of them has far superior stats “ON PAPER” then the others, leaders will ALMOST ALWAYS choose the one with superior stats cause its the “best looking option presented”

Just buy a bus, endgame is currently braindead atm only worthwhile content is hellmode Valtan and even that you can buy XD. If your a new player just wait for handouts from SG to hit each relevant money ilvl like the game basically plays itselfs.

What a fun game. To stand afk and wait for someone to kill the boss for you.
Are you in to those “afk arena”-type of games?

This whole situation is ridiculous. There should be alternative simpler content for casual players. Like Oreha but for 1415+. And raid gear must be available to buy/sell on the market.

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I mean SG has every power to make their game not a snoozefest. I don’t condone nor condemn either I’m just stating the obvious.

If you feel the “need” to participate but not have to deal with pheons and constantly min maxing and having a resume each time you apply for a party with your toon. Just play a support you can sit on 4 engravings till the end of time since they will never balance supports.

Or get a static i guess if you don’t wanna be jailed into a support class.

Plus whats much simpler than just paying a bit of gold and watching a youtube video while all your raid is cleared lmao.

Idk about other people but I’ve started to actually focus on taking alts to my Valtan Hard and Vykas Normals. My experience running with overleveled folks in alt runs have been very subpar. 1460+ Soulfist with sub 200k damage. 1470+ Berzerkers who die to Vykas G2.

The best runs I’ve had have been runs with full 1445s for both. Of course 1445 is overleveled for vykas and I’ll usually take a 1430 as long as they have at least a little more than 3x3 and level 5 gems.

I make my Alt runs that. Alt runs. The expectation is you don’t screw up mechanics and you know what you are doing with decent settings.

I personally do not think the content is that hard. It takes a few hours to learn the content but once you have it down it’s very easy. I still think it’s satisfying to do the content and fun when everything goes smoothly.

New player experience is tough. No wonder why the game isn’t growing anymore and all we have left is returning players who quit the game because of reasons. I play alts and I get declined a spot for party finder groups even with a decent level roster newer people get my spot with worse engraving and roster level. It’s a good thing to see honestly that they are giving them a chance but it could also be a bot so I’m skeptical about it.

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If we can actually standardize the group titles about the expectations Ithink it’ll get better.

To me there are 4 levels of groups with different expectations

  1. Try group- At ilvl with a basic understanding of the fight but without the experience to recognize everything. The intent for these parties is to turn new raiders into experienced raiders. Generally you only need maybe 2 or 3 weeks of this to become extremely comfortable from my experience. Wipes are expected and likely to take a few hours to clear the whole thing. Looser requirements in regards to gems and engravings.

  2. Experienced Parties- To me this would mean everyone is playing on their main or a strong alt and they know the fight. It’s expected to be a clean kill and usually people are overleveled in ilvl to some amount. The expectation isn’t that everyone is juiced out of their mind but party requirements will be higher just cause they are gonna take the strongest people on a first come first serve basis. Limited screwups with stronger characters. Shouldn’t take more than 45 minutes

  3. Alt Party- Lighter requirements but with the expectation that everyone knows what they are doing. You don’t need to be fully maxed out in terms of gems and engravings but you better not screw up. This is for at ilvl characters with alot of experience from doing the fight multiple times a week. Maybe some screw ups but shouldn’t take more than an hour tops.

  4. Juiced party- These are for the folks who want to make it as fast a clear as possible with as little risk of failures as possible. Don’t bother signing up if you aren’t significantly over ilvl with full relic 5x3 engravings and minimum level 7 gems if not more. These people only want to play with folks who put a ton of time or money into their character to minimize the chance of the run taking any longer than it should be. I really wish parties that are only looking for super high ilvls would use some kind of labeling to distinguish it as such to not waste my time signing up. Kill the boss go go go 25 minutes expectation who knows tho with player quality.

Pick a support class to learn, you will be accepted really fast on any party. If it’s your first time, look for a proc or learning party.

Guild or static is another good option, people don’t want to waste their time teaching a guy that never will see again, but if you will be their party member for next months, is a good investment of time.

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the weak player is supposed to ride busses and not learn all the way if content was released 3 weeks+