The point here is that with a BUS - you can see clearly the performance of a carrier. As in they either pass it or they don’t.
When you are paying for a support, you can’t determine the performance because there are a lot of factors involved. This applies to paying for a well-geared DPS too. You can’t determine if paying a highly geared DPS made impact to pass a raid or not just as you can’t determine performance of a support when everyone is required to pay attention elsewhere in a raid.
If a support survive at the end, does it mean the fault is with the other 6 DPS? Just because a support can survive - and they should, does the blame is on support or the DPS at that point? You can’t tell which side is doing worse. Why? The DPS blame a support for not doing his/her job, and that support will start to blame DPS for failing. Do you see what I’m saying?
So again, if a support thinks he/she is doing a good job, but in reality he/she is not. Do you honestly believe he/she will refund the gold?
You don’t have to sugar coat or diverge it. I have a paladin at 1460 myself so I don’t know why you felt the superior complex to tell me to learn how they function. I can tell you nobody not even DPS will admit the raid failed is due to their performance, especially when a payment is involved.
This entire problem can be avoided with BUS - you die so the carrier can do their jobs. You can rate their performance by looking at it from an dead spot. It is very different than having a support claiming to perform well and deserve the payment.
This kind of a practice should always be frown upon. It doesn’t make any sense in the first place. You need to realize that this is nothing more than ego, entitlement and greed masked by reasons.
Nah when 5 people pay me 60k each for HM Vykas on release day they can bid on anything they want. Bus driver never bids on the loot. If you’re trying to bus and you’re worried about loot you’re not a bus driver.
to be fair i’ve done hundreds of bus carries and most of the time atleast in the west it’s just unskilled players who want to gear quickly so they can pug easier. In KR yea it’s mostly alts. Completely different games though. You are gifted 1415 characters in KR
I have no problem with support selling their services. However,those on ivl 1445 3 engraving lvl 5 gems support charging 2k PER dps in party finder is just cringe. DPS players invested heavily into their builds in order to bus people, at least put some efforts into the support builds before asking for outrageous prices.
I mean if you value the performance of support service so much lower than to a bus service, you could just pay the support service less gold or not pay at all.
From my experience, I do both bus driving and charge for support or whatever I feel like at the time, I never had any refund request even when failing to clear raid. And yes, I would have refunded if asked.
I think a bad support is pretty easy to spot but maybe I’m just biased.
Ego, entitlement and greed can be found anywhere. IMO if greed had multiple level, DPS who think bus service should be paid while support service should be free that would be a level higher of greed.
You’re not bussing lol, you’re charging noobs to join a raid that you yourself obviously can’t clear. Why would you bring up refunds? this is why real Bus drivers stay away from those weird discords you clowns use. You aren’t able to carry raids yet you are acting like your bussing players. Want to learn what a real bus looks like? Join my HM Vykas one on release day
This already explained above. A BUS is a service where the buyer do not do anything but to claim loots at the end. It is a clear and very different from demanding gold when performance is questionable in a raid.
Support service is what exactly? It still required everyone in a raid to do every thing else, you can’t tell how support is doing due to all the other stuff taking your attention away. You’re not focusing your attention on a single performance in a raid. In a bus? yes you can.
No offense, but from your words, I don’t think you sell a bus before. Anyone that is selling a bus understand the clear differences. The greed here is demanding gold when everyone else also required to perform to pass a raid - that’s ego, entitlement and greed from those looking to earn gold on top of this.
You’re not doing bus runs. You obviously have no idea what the term actually means. I’ve been doing solo Hm Valtan for 3 weeks. You are charging people to join a raid, everyone that joins mine is asked to politely die and enjoy the show. There are levels to this and I’m on the top of the totem pole.
No no Bus drivers should be paid, thats why they are doing the bus.
Im just trying to show biased people on forum saying only supports are greedy because during certain time of content relase and there are lack of supports some supports get paid to do content with parties who are willing to pay rather than party who are not willing to pay.
If aome parties want to pay supports on new content and support gets paid its nobody else’s business. If you calling support greedy then since DPS arent greedy they should provide free bus.
Ahh, I see thanks for explaining I understand your point now. However I am sorry that I don’t agree on your take to “pay” supports just for doing what they are supposed to do… Providing support.
However, I think its fair to pay support of a 1475+ support wants to provide support for Argos though. I mean sure, go ahead and do that I suppose. If someone is willing to pay for support so they can clear the content easier thats fine.
The thing is that DPS doing a “Bus” on lower content it also means that the one paying doesn’t have to do jack shit, they just die, drink some coffee or something and its done. The content is cleared. Support doesn’t provide this.
And then paying support for doing content that is gear appropriate… Yeah… No thanks. Its not like DPS is asking for money to do gear appropriate content either, they only provide carries for lower end content.
the different is that you can charge for a “Carry”. Not for just providing support while that is what the whole class is designed for.
Anyways, I think its ok for supports to ask for gold or whatever. I am not against it however I would definitely take note of that support and basically scrap him from my list of people to ever play with (again). If he would be asking for money to do current-content that is gear appropriate and its not like 100 ivls lower etc.
As for the lack of supports. I think every DPS can make a support alt so we can do rotations with our statics. Its easy to do that 6x if everyone of your 8 man statics has an atleast 1 alt. Thats the best way to fix the lack of support. It just takes a bit longer as alt support accounts will always be far behind support mains.
Anyways!!! I love you support people and I appreciate you all. But, Nah I ain’t paying just to raid with you though