Engraving negative effects should scaled accordingly

This suggestion may have been suggested before, but I figure I will make another post to give it another vote.

Many engravings have malice or negative effects. Take grudge for example, at level 1, you get a mere 4% damage increase to boss while taking 20% more incoming damage, ouch.
IMO, it doesn’t make sense to penalize an engraving soo hard at level one and make it only viable to play it at level 3.
More experienced players know this. But to a newbie? They play level 1 grudge anyway. This isn’t nice to new players.

Why don’t we make grudge scale accordingly.
So at level 1, it should be 4% damage increase to boss, and perhaps 5% damage incoming damage to you. At level 2, it should be 10% increase to boss and 10% to you. At level 3, it should be the same at 20% output and 20% incoming.

This is just one engraving of many. We can also fix engravings such as Cursed doll, Precise dagger, Keen blunt, etc.

I think this is a sensible balance that does not break the game.
Let me hear your thoughts. Give it a thumbsup / like if you agree with the idea. And if you don’t leave a comment as to why.

I think we do not need this change.

Before you reach ilevel 1370 it is very hard to make a decent build by having multiple level 3 engravings. Therefore you can use those engravings that dont have this type of malice for example hit master. You can also have 2x9 equipped for grudge if you really want that.
Grudge starts to really matter after 1370 imo.

For keen blunt, using this before you have enough crit would be foolish. And yet again it is hard to get enough crit before 1370.

As a t1 and t2 player the focus should be getting decent stats and a class engraving which will give you the most benefit in the early and mid game (taking away gs peacemaker build and blue gunlancer few to mention)

I might be wrong but this is my take. The greater bonus/reward the greater malice.

P.S. I played with level one grudge for a while on purpose to get better at dodging. I feel this has helped me in the long run :slight_smile:

This isn’t an apple to apple comparison here. Classes such as deathblade, berzerker, scrapper, etc can’t use Hit master. They have to play something like grudge for real damage output.

I haven’t heard of 2x9. Do elaborate.

As a t1 and t2 player the focus should be getting decent stats and a class engraving which will give you the most benefit in the early and mid game

Why put restriction on which tier gets to play what? Wouldn’t be more liberating and more room for creativity for people to play grudge at level 2 in tier 1 or 2? As oppose to the “you must be tier 3 and you must play level 3 judge.” That’s soo cookie cutter.

Back and front attack classes can use those engravings. These dont have malice in lower tiers.
For example mine 1325 deathblade have been running since i started with her level3 adrenaline and level 1 ambush master. I get MVP:s at armored nacrasena almost everytime

I mean using 2 x nine grudge books. then rest engravings from accesories

I dont mean it as a restriction. I mean that it is not anyway necessary to run grudge at t1 and t2 :slight_smile:

I think grudge comes a “must have” 1370 the earliest

No. If you tried to use Hit master on a skill that says “back attack,” it actually would not give you the damage bonus, even if you are not attacking from the back. I’ve tested it in Trixon. :grin:

I mean using 2 x nine grudge books. then rest engravings from accesories

So going back to what I was saying about allowing more room for creativity. Wouldn’t you like to play both your class engraving, level 1, 2 or 3 grudge, and something fun at Tier 2 or 1? As oppose to stacking 2x 9 engraving books?
For example, I want to use level 1 Time to hunt for my GS and play it with a lvl 1 or 2 grudge in Tier 1. That’ll be great if the game allows this.

I think grudge comes a “must have” 1370 the earliest
Well this point here is mostly user’s preference. TBH, I can clear valtan hard without grudge on a dps char without problem. But anyhow, going back to what you said about the greater bonus = the greater malice, grudge in itself already has a huge malice, you are taking a 20% damage increase. This opens up windows for some of the boss’ mech to 1 shot you.
But see, at level 1, it’s just 4% damage increase, why not scale it accordingly to 5% incoming damage? As you said, the greater the reward, the greater the malice. A 4% damage increase is hardly called a great reward :wink:

I wrote my thoughts wrong what i meant that these classes can use master brawler or ambush master beside of hit master.

I think all this is possible even if you use 2x9 grudge books. Until valtan you get the class engraving accesories with decent/good quality from abyssals.

I see what you mean and its a good point. While I said that we do not need this change I wouldnt mind if the change happens. Yes it would open up more options to build your char at t1 and t2 before you get the better accesories after 1370 but shouldnt it be worth the wait? I mean that you play through t1 and t2 without grudge which is a end game engraving and when you get your char to 1370+ or at least t3 you get the play with the best engravings. Having 4% more damage from grudge engraving is easily obtainable from other sources without any malice, and i think is obtainable with every class :slight_smile: again i might be wrong, not played them all

Well certain class can’t play engravings like Hit master or Master brawler at all. Take Deathblade for example. If you run either of these engravings, it is super inefficient because almost all of her skills are back attack. Therefore, DB must play Master ambush. If someone try to run Master brawler as a DB… I think they are trolling or just a noob who doesn’t know any better.

So going with the DB example, there are limited damage enhancing engravings DB can use. Class engraving for sure, then they got Master ambush, grudge, perhaps adrenaline, supercharge, cursed doll, maybe keen blunt weapon if they got enough crit, and that’s sorta it… They can’t be running around with stuff like Barricade, Master brawler, hit master, Master tenacity -___- though I’ve seen it LOL

Having 4% more damage from grudge engraving is easily obtainable from other sources without any malice,
Yes, true. But it’s always more fun we have more options to play with. I’m sure we all will benefit :wink:

I did not mean that db should use master brawler. I meant that class who benefits from back or front attack should use an engraving according tho where thay should hit :slight_smile:

I think it is more rewarding to obtain these “more options” when you progress with your character rather than have everything from the start.

But I understand your opinion and while it is good, I feel that the there are decent amount options to all classes and these options add up as you progress :slight_smile:

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ooohh, I understand what you’re saying now.

I definite think people find it more rewarding when they can see progression. One progression is getting better Engravings. But hey, I’m an advocate for the little guys, the lower tier and the newbs.
I would like them to have the option of playing grudge at level 1 and not get flamed for it.
Personally, the idea of making level 1 grudge as a debuff instead of a buff, or at least a flat out even trade of 5% damage to 5% incoming damage is a poor idea.

My only speculation as to WHY they did something like this is to perhaps reduce the price of grudge? If this is the case, increase grudge drop rate just a tad bit.
Currently in our NA sever, grudge legendary engraving book is ridiculous. At our current content, many pro veteran players will make the case that we do not need grudge. Some will even say we don’t need grudge even at Vykas hard yet.

I understand that as a new player who doesnt know much yet would love to use grudge, x% more damage. And I feel you about the flaming, everyone should get the chance of trial and error.

Last time I checked legendary grudge was around 13.5k at my server. But it will drop down to at least 9-11k when bridge comes and many will get the 2 legendary selection engravings and pick grudge to sell them.

This is what KR vets are expecting.

But your point to make grudge more accessible at t1 and t2 is not a bad idea whatsoever, but i feel there are enough options and it feels better to get a progression reward and use grudge at level 3 at later time :slight_smile:

Sounds like we both want to make the game more enjoyable for beginners and open up room for creativity. That’s great.

Where I think we see things a bit differently is about how we view certain engravings, specifically talking Grudge. I don’t see it as an end game/special/godly/special engraving. No, to me it’s just another engraving. It sure gives a nice 20% damage but it also has one of the biggest debuff of making you take 20% more damage, if not the biggest, in the engraving world. And I think it’s only in such high demand due to its universal application. Essentially all class can use it effectively without any special condition.

I cant disagree with this at all. But still think that giving t1 and t2 access to it by lowering the malice at levels 1 and 2 is not something the new player need, because there are (i think) enough options to use already regardless of the class. And this is only because of the fact that there is a limit how many engravings you can use and in what level. :slight_smile:

Well I think having more options for engraving is not a bad thing. Cause currently with the way Grudge is setup, it’s a noob trap. Newbs hear that grudge is the best damage engraving, so they just haphazardly run it at level 1 without understanding what’s going on. :laughing: