Some engravings are additive and some are extra multiplyers and that’s where Grudge shines because grude is always the 20% more cherry on top. there are a lot of nice YT vids about the topic out there ^^.
If everyone in a 8 player party does 5% less, that’s still 5% less for the party total damage, not 5% x 8, so instead 20 mins of fight, it becomes 21 mins of fight. Does that matter that much? Worth the extra 10’s of thousands of gold you pay for grudge book/stone/accessories? I am not convinced tbh.
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Well according to every top player in kr it is huge! And alot of raids are much longer then 20min… and the total dmg number lost is x8 still 5% but 5% is huge when you look at the accual dmg number… sure if you cant survive with grudge dont play it untill you know the fight well enough… and hit master is not realy an option for head and back attack classes witch are most classes is it? So to me the srgument is just weird, hit master is super conditional and only an option to a few builds and if you are running one of those builds you should run both anyway
The grudge as it makes me nervous with the 20% negative effect.
I think about for example sorceress survivability. If a player has average skill - aka little noob player -to dodge certain mechanics or the player a bit overlooks the mechanics, that player with a grudge going to be dead very fast. The 4% more damage does not apply if u die fast because you’re not fast/good enough on mechanics. Ofc how time goes you will be much faster/more experienced. Until that, I don’t think the grudge is beneficial. After that, I still consider carefully using an engraving with very little benefit and take huge disadvantage. For me, a bit less damage but higher survivability is worth it. It doesn’t matter for me to kill a boss within 3 min or 6. But that is matter if I have a constant survivability debuff from an engraving.
The thing that grinds my gears in this community:
y’all are too focused on engravings.
Yes they scale and add a lot to your DPS and you need them.
BUT!
If you don’t have the right stats for your build that the engravings can scale on, you won’t do damage. Your expensive engravings won’t help you.
I see people running around with Domination, Endurance and stuff like that, but impeccable engravings.
They still do no damage.
I laugh at “Engraving check” in party finder. Because they don’t say nothing. Look at both. Because the best Engraving won’t do s*it with the wrong stats.
Most builds, depending on the class, rely on Crit, Spec and Swiftness.
Keen blunt with basically no crit but plenty of spec and domination won’t work.
The FIRST thing you have to get is the right stats for the engravings to build upon.
Your cheap Grudge ring probably was cheap because it had Domination on it. And someone profited off of you 
Get your stats right and then decide on an engraving that fits your playstyle.
Example:
For a blue Gunlancer, if you have troubles keeping over 80% HP because you still learn the fight, don’t use Stabilised Status.
If your class is squishy and you need practice avoiding damage, don’t take Grudge and look for Hit Master or Ambush Master, depending on your class.
JUST FOCUS ON STATS FIRST.
Use the filter in AH to only get the combat stats you need with the engravings you want.
Grudge will probably be mandatory in late endgame because it’s the one with most benefits without having certain conditions. If you get used to eat 20% more damage early on, or as soon as you’re comfy with it, will make everything easier later on.
Just, for the love of god, get your stats right. PLEASE.
The Truth: I will never be using grudge…ever.
No? Where did you get this info? They work the exact same way, regarding bonus damage
If you keep reading the posts you will see i admit to being wrong about this, i rememberd wrong… damage is multi and attack power additive and i thought it was attack power… point still stands…
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This
Then enjoy not getting accepted to legion raids later on lol
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Ah apologies, i didn’t read the rest of the thread indeed. Cheers mate
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Np only good to point out bad info… i still get things confused sometimes 
Yeah but again it doesn’t matter your numbers are not relevant because you are comparing RNG mechanism with flat damage (Grudge). Or yeah ok you want to arbitrary give a number to PD and that’s the one you give, but it’s very different things.
Grudge is flat out better that Hit Master. That’s something you can compare numbers. Is Grudge better than Precise Dagger when you have 400% crit damage ?? No, never. Like it only increase the spectacle of your high-rolls, but it doesn’t make up for the loss when you low roll. PD reduce your chance of low-rolling and increase the consistency of your pulls. Your low rolls become pitifull yeah, but they happens much less often and that’s matter since with or without grudge, your lowroll lead you to idk, death.
So if you need to high-roll or you die and Grudge increase the “viability” of your high roll then you’d go Grudge EVEN if it was like worst “on average”. And the same way you’d go PD even if it’s “worst on average” if you want to reduce the frequency of your low roll. It’s all about which one give you more chance of dealing with a specific things. It’s very different and subjective than just comparing 2 flat multiplier.
Imagine there is that floor on the Tower and you need to Oneshot the boss or he kills you. The only way you can oneshot him is be critting your Doomsday, obviously you take PD unless you find something else that can make your non-crit oneshot the boss. So yeah it doesn’t matter if you’re supposed to get couple digit over a thousands of guardian encounter, what matter is that you are consistent in killing theim easily every day.
Plus PD vs Flat comparison isn’t generally about Grudge since you most likely take both in 4x3 setup anyway, but about Hit Master. But it’s the same, you’d only take Hit Master if you need higher high-rolls, otherwise you always take consistency.
Flat math looks like grudge is best, but if you think about it its somehow better to pick disrespect coz of few reasons:
- Cheaper
- No defense debuff
- Early stages of the fights are usually the easiest part of the encounter. As example Argos, how many times I found that half of our team is wiped by half when its 8min> left. Or some bosses starts to use certain mechs as x% hp etc. Lets say late game dmg is way more important than early one, due to increased diff. lvl.
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Yeah that’s one of my point, but still be carefull with that.
Like, if you do more damage early you reduce the time it takes to go to “late” (30%) and then you have more pepega friends to help you finish the job. So the Flat comparison is relevant and as I said, I do believe that in most case Grudge is better.
My point is essentially that comparing what is comparable is good, but you always need to put a context to your comparison. In our case, Hit Master VS Grudge, the context usually doesn’t matter. Grudge is better. There are only 2 contexts that can actually matter in the Grudge VS HitMaster comparison :
- There is a constant steam of unavoidable damage during the encounter and you cannot sustain it if you have Grudge.
- There are some avoidable damage that you can sustain in exchange for more uptime dealing damage to the boss and that you can’t sustain (must avoid, which lead to uptime losses) with Grudge.
Ok ? Yet even in the 2nd context, you gotta estimate first the uptime loss before going into any conclusion, yeah usually you are out of one these 2 context and the comparison is immediate.
For Disrespect, it’s contextual again. You still need to be in a TRUE PEPEGA party to see it mathematically better than Grudge (unless you factors the 2nd context we mentionned above because it’s relevant for you, but its relevance also highly depends on player skillset). But yeah personnally I like going into TRUE PEPEGA groups because it’s the only place I can find some real fun and challenging content currently and that content implies that there are PEPEGAS that help me during the encounter and then leave/die when the boss reach 30%, so in that context Disrespect is mathematically better.
I don’t know how hard are latest Legion Raid but I don’t think the context is currently favorable for Disrespect (otherwise it would be meta).
ps: btw an example of such a context is Albion : PEPEGAs usually die to the mech. And it doesn’t matter how fast we reach the mech, they still die to it because they’re PEPEGAS such that I always end up alone doing the last 12 HP bar, and it doesn’t matter if I can speed up the other 24 first bars I’m still stuck doing Albion P3 alone and it’s not that easy so the shorter it can be and the better it is.
To expensive to get 4x3 atm! An you dont need that before long time still.
A LOT of eu/na players can drop grudge for now (you bring zero to raid laying on floor and wasting resurrects!) 
Yeah, its prob. all depends of lvl of play. Grudge will always win in top tier end game players. But disrespect could be better choice early, playing with randoms etc.
Tbh not that much as you think.
Like you gotta take a non-BiS 4th engraving (Disrespect is perfect) and you can have a 4x3 with maybe Disrespect insteed of Hit Master but 10 time cheaper because you are buying Grudge + Disrespect stone that basically only cost 5 pheon insteed of buying Grudge/HitMaster stone that worth 1000g on top of the 5 pheons.
yes it is, stop sugercoating it.
5 phoens is worth more than gold difference.
Keen Blunt weapon … is better than grudge … my opinion … u can test in training room
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