Then enjoy not getting accepted to legion raids later on lol
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Ah apologies, i didn’t read the rest of the thread indeed. Cheers mate
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Np only good to point out bad info… i still get things confused sometimes 
Yeah but again it doesn’t matter your numbers are not relevant because you are comparing RNG mechanism with flat damage (Grudge). Or yeah ok you want to arbitrary give a number to PD and that’s the one you give, but it’s very different things.
Grudge is flat out better that Hit Master. That’s something you can compare numbers. Is Grudge better than Precise Dagger when you have 400% crit damage ?? No, never. Like it only increase the spectacle of your high-rolls, but it doesn’t make up for the loss when you low roll. PD reduce your chance of low-rolling and increase the consistency of your pulls. Your low rolls become pitifull yeah, but they happens much less often and that’s matter since with or without grudge, your lowroll lead you to idk, death.
So if you need to high-roll or you die and Grudge increase the “viability” of your high roll then you’d go Grudge EVEN if it was like worst “on average”. And the same way you’d go PD even if it’s “worst on average” if you want to reduce the frequency of your low roll. It’s all about which one give you more chance of dealing with a specific things. It’s very different and subjective than just comparing 2 flat multiplier.
Imagine there is that floor on the Tower and you need to Oneshot the boss or he kills you. The only way you can oneshot him is be critting your Doomsday, obviously you take PD unless you find something else that can make your non-crit oneshot the boss. So yeah it doesn’t matter if you’re supposed to get couple digit over a thousands of guardian encounter, what matter is that you are consistent in killing theim easily every day.
Plus PD vs Flat comparison isn’t generally about Grudge since you most likely take both in 4x3 setup anyway, but about Hit Master. But it’s the same, you’d only take Hit Master if you need higher high-rolls, otherwise you always take consistency.
Flat math looks like grudge is best, but if you think about it its somehow better to pick disrespect coz of few reasons:
- Cheaper
- No defense debuff
- Early stages of the fights are usually the easiest part of the encounter. As example Argos, how many times I found that half of our team is wiped by half when its 8min> left. Or some bosses starts to use certain mechs as x% hp etc. Lets say late game dmg is way more important than early one, due to increased diff. lvl.
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Yeah that’s one of my point, but still be carefull with that.
Like, if you do more damage early you reduce the time it takes to go to “late” (30%) and then you have more pepega friends to help you finish the job. So the Flat comparison is relevant and as I said, I do believe that in most case Grudge is better.
My point is essentially that comparing what is comparable is good, but you always need to put a context to your comparison. In our case, Hit Master VS Grudge, the context usually doesn’t matter. Grudge is better. There are only 2 contexts that can actually matter in the Grudge VS HitMaster comparison :
- There is a constant steam of unavoidable damage during the encounter and you cannot sustain it if you have Grudge.
- There are some avoidable damage that you can sustain in exchange for more uptime dealing damage to the boss and that you can’t sustain (must avoid, which lead to uptime losses) with Grudge.
Ok ? Yet even in the 2nd context, you gotta estimate first the uptime loss before going into any conclusion, yeah usually you are out of one these 2 context and the comparison is immediate.
For Disrespect, it’s contextual again. You still need to be in a TRUE PEPEGA party to see it mathematically better than Grudge (unless you factors the 2nd context we mentionned above because it’s relevant for you, but its relevance also highly depends on player skillset). But yeah personnally I like going into TRUE PEPEGA groups because it’s the only place I can find some real fun and challenging content currently and that content implies that there are PEPEGAS that help me during the encounter and then leave/die when the boss reach 30%, so in that context Disrespect is mathematically better.
I don’t know how hard are latest Legion Raid but I don’t think the context is currently favorable for Disrespect (otherwise it would be meta).
ps: btw an example of such a context is Albion : PEPEGAs usually die to the mech. And it doesn’t matter how fast we reach the mech, they still die to it because they’re PEPEGAS such that I always end up alone doing the last 12 HP bar, and it doesn’t matter if I can speed up the other 24 first bars I’m still stuck doing Albion P3 alone and it’s not that easy so the shorter it can be and the better it is.
To expensive to get 4x3 atm! An you dont need that before long time still.
A LOT of eu/na players can drop grudge for now (you bring zero to raid laying on floor and wasting resurrects!) 
Yeah, its prob. all depends of lvl of play. Grudge will always win in top tier end game players. But disrespect could be better choice early, playing with randoms etc.
Tbh not that much as you think.
Like you gotta take a non-BiS 4th engraving (Disrespect is perfect) and you can have a 4x3 with maybe Disrespect insteed of Hit Master but 10 time cheaper because you are buying Grudge + Disrespect stone that basically only cost 5 pheon insteed of buying Grudge/HitMaster stone that worth 1000g on top of the 5 pheons.
yes it is, stop sugercoating it.
5 phoens is worth more than gold difference.
Keen Blunt weapon … is better than grudge … my opinion … u can test in training room
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idk man even if you gotta spend 100 pheons it’s nothing. It’s like 4k golds. Definitely I’ll pay 4k golds when my alt, that I’ve spend 20k golds worth mats upgrading to 1370, just hit the cap. Sure it’s 4k on top of that but once it’s done, its engraving setup will not change in the next 6 months or so. Quite a interesting investement considering how easier it is for you to carry PEPEGAS with 4x3.
Disrespect is probably the most underrated engraving. This is because more often than not <30% is when the boss gets more difficult and gets you much more value when it counts. It also has a funny bonus of estimating the hp of guardians since the damage goes up by 36% when they are under 30%.
Pretty sure i will be fine since I run my own t3 guild.
“the truth” is I did everything up to Argos p2 and didn’t feel the need of having grudge. Maybe when I have more gold to spend, if I actually need more dmg in the future updates I will switch.
Tbh I also prefer to not having to play at 100% focus all the time, I have already enough of that when playing my deadeye alt, lol
Still, so far I could complete Argos both times I did it only because I was the only dps still alive at the end, so…
Sorry but considering only the math for dps is simply wrong, there are many other factors.
You mean about the chart? It does not account for over 100% crit in dps increase calculation. % increase expectation can be found on the chart by using crit% and c.dmg% before Precise Dagger is applied.
Keen blunt gives about 16% dps increase around 60% crit. Close to 20% at 80% crit, if and only if thete is no other c.dmg bonus.
Again, contingent upon conditions, while Grudge is pure and simple 20% more dps period in all scenarios.
But flat multiplier only makes your high rolls bigger. When you have a lot of crit damage, you don’t do any damage if you are not criting. 20% more of nothing is nothing. That’s why class with high crit damage usually go for Precise Dagger regardless the “average” value comparison.
You definitely prefer consistency over a couple digit on your “average”. Especially if you may fail at meeting dps requierement if your damage are not consistent enough regarding crits. That’s why build with very high crit damage always run precise dagger (unless capping obviously). If you remove one line to put precise dagger it’s not Grudge tho.
its actually a math thing,in the time its from 30% to 0,the massive extra damage you deal is about the same as having a grudge bonus from the start
Only if your base dps is constant from the begining to the end, which is not the case if you have pepegas friends with you that do damage at the begining and dies before the half of the encounter. All that matters is the relative uptime you have on the disrespect buff compare to the fight lenght.