Yikes man.
How much money did you spend to get to Argos again? You’re holding it up like some sort of trophy, get a grip bro.
This is also true, Current t3 hardmode being at 1370 means about a month of content drought for even hardcore players. So from 1340-1369 you’ll be doing the same content for a month or longer.
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I stand with this, not only do we have lower % chances than other serves, we also posess lower amount of champions, lower amount of skins, people are getting bored really fast since the game lets you progress to an already level which feels very slow to upgrade, but theres no skins or other champs to keep you refreshed on the game, this is what saddens me and to know i have to wait probably 1 year for my champ to arrive (that is in every other server) just makes me feel like to quit the game until the champ comes since i know all my progress will be close to worthless because i have to do all that on my main (scouter) which is yet to release.
If Amazon truly cares of the players, they should ramp up the new champ release rate, or release multiple champs until we have them all, that way, everyone gets equal skins.
For example we are now getting omen skins, that are 1 month in store, so when scouter releases, i have to wait 1-2 year for omen skin to get for him or buy it for inflated price in market? Theres just so much we are missing and the biggest hit is the champions that are already on other servers.
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So, it seems the fixes and balances to progression might come later than we expect if this is their response in one of the threads regarding this topic.
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T1 - 10% chance increase
T2 - 10% chance increase
T3 - 20 % chance increase
Give us more content same as in Korea. I am 1340 and it feels horrible, there are such as low income of materials that the game scream on you to swipe with credit card. Feels like ghost town the way to 1370 I am not doing it, will rather focus on alts. Noone is playing at 1370 just check market there are 100 legendary necklaces at that tier for sell, that is telling a lot no one is playing there.
The infinite chaos is horible looks like one run per one leapstone and it gets even worse,I play 12 hours a day but I am not chinese bot to do same thing whole day, its not worth it.
Anyway I agree with majority of posts. We need good changes and fast we already lost 200k players which is really bad.
For god sake give players what they want. We want more skins and all classes release. What are you waiting for to loose another 300k players? Players are begging for skins to give you money and you wants to give us one per month so everyone will looks same anyway.
I want summoner and lancer but everyone like other classes so release them all togheter, there is nothing you can loose.
Just one last note. Everyone is hyped with T3 rush, but after having blast in T1 and T2 with plenty of content, T3 is really bad one guardian and chaos dung and no way to progres without credit card, didnt expect could be so bad and really put me off from hapines feeling playing the game.
4 Likes
I can’t speak for the 1340-1370 gap because I haven’t experienced it yet (I likely will in the next few weeks), but I will tell you how some of the other segments have felt.
The biggest pain point I’ve experienced so far has been at 1090-1100, and I suspect that that level of frustration increases and repeats at future walls the higher one goes and the lower the success chances get. It’s demoralizing, because if there is one thing gamers in the West universally despise, it’s having their time wasted. What’s really needed to combat this is an overhaul to the system to do away with the chance-based upgrade system altogether, but I appreciate that that doesn’t align with the financial incentives in the way the game is monetized.
Short of that, at the very least, the floor to which odds of success can drop as enhancement levels increase, the rate at which artisan’s energy increases, and the value of resources used to increase success chances should all be improved to be more favorable to the player. It’s not so bad to feel like you’re only going to get one attempt at a +1 per day–but that’s only true if you succeed. Failing a honing attempt, and having that failure represent wiping out all of the progress you’ve made over the course of the day (or multiple days), feels especially punitive. You can’t even play more to get another shot at it; your choices are either to spend money or call it a day.
An alternative or additional measure would be to remove the weekly cap on spending 0 resonance chaos dungeon rewards on honing materials, allowing players who have the time to grind additional chaos dungeons to fund additional honing attempts. Another would be to make certain content that rewards honing materials (island quests, dungeons, etc.) repeatable in set increments and by alts. Yet another would be to add additional stronghold research to further improve honing for alts.
At low tiers and low enhancement levels, the honing system feels fine. There’s a chance of failure, but attempts succeed more often than not, and you can force your way to certainty by using Sun’s/Moon’s Breath. You can calculate accurately how many materials it will take to get to a certain level. This accuracy evaporates at higher tiers and higher enhancement levels, and the amount of mats spent to obtain a certain item level can vary wildly between players.
I strongly like the idea of being able to do content (such as cube and maps) in order to guarantee honing success, and I would like to see that expanded in order to level the playing field between players who wish to take risks and those who don’t, as well as to close the gap between those who were fortunate and those who have fallen behind due only to a profound run of bad luck.
Also, to echo an obvious suggestion elsewhere: all honing mats, including shards and leapstones, should be roster-wide.
This is one thing that bothers me. 1340 -1370 will take at least a few weeks without paying. Which means you are stuck doing the same guardian everyday for weeks.
Guys… WOW! Thank you so much for all of this feedback! Still open to hearing your thoughts. I’m currently going through all of this and organizing it for the team to read over. Thank you again!!!
9 Likes
It’s pretty simple. RNG upgrade systems in which you lose resources or the item breaks in some fashion are garbage. They’re garbage in every single game that has ever had them. They feel terrible for the player.
Instead of having a 50% upgrade chance for 1000 whatevers, simply make it take 2000 whatever for a 100% upgrade chance. Do this everywhere.
If you gave players a choice in game, that they could attempt a 50% chance at half the mats or 100% chance at double the mats, almost every single person would opt for the 100% chance. No one likes these systems.
And you can still make money selling the materials to players if that was a concern.
Time played
600 Hours
Money Spent
Bronze Founder Pack
Current Tier
T3 - iLevel 1360
T1 - T3 Experience
Farmed non stop, invested all my gold into the auction house and into blue crystals.
Spent 15,000 Blue crystals I farmed for months on upgrade materials, got no-where close to 1370 because of honing rates.
Current Experience
This game is miserable and I feel like I’m only still playing because of a sunk cost fallacy. I worked so hard to level alts, invest in the auction house, convert all my gold into blue crystals to try to catch up with 600hours played and I can’t get anywhere close to 1370 because of bad honing RNG.
Proposed Solution
Additional welcome challenge rewards based on Chaos dungeon level capped at 1370 to help everyone below 1370 catch up in addition to more ways to get honing materials.
If you just increase honing rates now, a lot of people including myself already feel they are in a hopeless situation where they already spent everything trying to reach argos.
I’m already close to quitting and PvP is the only thing that I’m personally holding out for, but given how PvP players have been treated this past month I’m not holding my breathe.
A lot of people can probably relate to this, but I knew I only had around a 30% - 45% chance to reach 1370 this week with the 500k+ gold worth of resources I stockpiled, it would be fine if I was only delayed by a week or so but I literally lost a month of progress due to the fact that the amount of upgrade materials you get in T3 is so awful.
4 Likes
as an fyi Shards are rooster bound, the stones aren’t
Do you remember how you guys put the wrong honing rates in your launch patch notes? If so, just bring it online and most of our problems are solved.
Also, add the NPCs and exchange options that Korean and Russian versions have. BOOM! All of our problems are solved.
Please for all that is sacred in this land, just flat out increase the honing chance at all stages by 50% and give 4 times more materials.
It’s so bad.
i think the honing rate is okay as it is right now but there are way to many less ways to get the materials. launching argos was too early aswell
T3 honing would be fine if we had the other events weekly for matierals.
Buffing T3 honing is just too soon and most likely wont hit until Valtan drops.
1 Like
Thank you Shadow_Fox for organizing this and reading feedbacks still.
This is the most I’ve felt somewhat heard since Roxx responded to threads, but now actively looking to hear feedback from players is another great start. I just hope we can get more guidance on when you believe changes can be made or at least timelines of your thoughts, but I know you guys don’t want to overpromise and underdeliver, but I guess currently players just want any kind of promise - not even an overpromise.
As for my thoughts/feedbacks on the issues - I think many players have brought up way too many great points on the biggest issues plaguing the honing system.
As it stands, its just… underwhelming and unrewarding. The feel of getting on your main, doing dailies, and failing all of them or getting like 1/6 success rate feels yeah - you’re getting no where or earning nothing for your progress. And yeah - there are even players who don’t mind grinding everything else and then continuing even more with like endless chaos dungeons run for more mats, but as it stands now is it just requires either an absurd amount of time investment to potentially push for the most recently released end game content, or you’re stuck doing a repetitive boring daily routine for a month+ to catch up as f2p with less time.
Which… is fine in a sense, but it kind of deviates from the goals we’ve heard were intended for players to try and catch up to global as fast as possible. I think that’s the biggest problem for me is… we’ve heard one things (So kind of promises and goals to look forward to) and yet, the system in place right now says otherwise. We’re already lacking material resources and yet still have a honing system in place with low rates… but the goal was to push everyone to get caught up to better tier 3 content asap? It just seems counterintuitive.
Its like most people don’t mind all the content releases and we encourage fast content releases too. I believe it was gold river who said they wanted us to get caught up with global as fast as possible so a lot of content releases is nice… but its also like what are you guys doing to help support that push for the rest of the players? As it stands, sure fast and more content are coming out but what’s the point if it comes out and no one can reach it because we’re lacking sources, honing rates, etc to reach it.
Players don’t mind the grind - but we need it to be a meaningful grind with a goal in sight or something to strive for instead of feeling like we’ll get no where for our playtime.
Tl;dr summary- unrewarding feeling since you can do so much and just fail all of it feeling we got no progress within a day or days
- also just feels counterintuitive towards the goal of getting players to enjoy end game tier 3 content where a lot more players were retained. Now it just feels like do your same dailies and pray for 1 or 2 successes and time to play alts (but not even all classes are released so just play whatever to farm resources if its not what you really want to play)
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That Fox video explains very well the issue.
I put in several hundred hours on RU to try out classes and learn the game to be prepared for NA/EU launch.
I have put something like 500-600 active play hours in to the NA/EU version - which is an absurd amount, but I was ill for 3 weeks and playing LA was one of the only things I was physically capable of doing and which provided an extremely needed distraction.
The amount of playtime I put in over the past month is completely unreasonable to expect out of anyone - and certainly not the vast majority of players. It’s probably several MONTHS worth of playtime for a lot of people.
And still, after those hundreds of active play hours, even with robust game knowledge I only achieved 1350. The entire first week that I was T3 (which would be almost 3 weeks now) I used all bound & unbound materials without selling anything and made almost no progress.
Even factoring in the materials that I HAVE sold now over the past week and half or so, the extra honing attempts would barely approach or cross in to double digits. And with the honing rates I’m confident that the difference it would’ve made is very small at best - it certainly wouldn’t have allowed reaching 1370 had those materials been used. It might’ve been enough to fail 10ish times and pity upgrade 1 more piece of gear for, literally, 1 ilvl gain.
The only people this doesn’t really alienate are the spendies, the people who have swiped and are swiping. And now, like Fox elaborates on in the video, this is going to create an even larger gap between people who spend and who do not - which is one of the things that many people who have been following and waiting for the game have been telling other people WOULDN’T happen.
But here we are.
If something isn’t done quickly, like next week, to facilitate and expedite player progress towards these encounters then it will become more and more of an issue that the playerbase/ex-playerbase/potential-playerbase talk about as they encourage others to stay away from the game/stop playing. If there are no changes to help bring more balance to player progress then the gap will get substantially larger between swipers and non-swipers with each week that 99% of the playerbase is locked out of the content - because each week is extra clears for those that are able to enter the encounter, and it creates a deficit that literally cannot be worked away at because of the time-bound nature of the encounters themselves.
This is coming from someone who has been waiting for this game for 3+ years. The camp of people who have heavily praised the game in many aspects and who will take their own precious time to create posts like this because they care about the health and success of the game that they enjoy and want others to enjoy.
And again I’ll echo a sentiment made by Fox in his video: This all just makes me sad. Things seemed like they were going so well. I feel like a lot of the things I told other people not to worry about and tried to reassure them wouldn’t happen are happening and will continue to happen in the future.
Whatever action is taken, and hopefully there is action and not inaction, needs to come quickly and be heavy enough to make a real difference. Confidence in the game and the path it is taking is wavering even amongst those who want nothing more for the game than to see it succeed.
7 Likes
make honing rates same as korea with +2 milestones.
give us same honing material sources korea has as well.
Theres like 100000 post about the current state of the game and the best yall do is asking “Honing thoughts?” ?
Heres what we think:
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Firstly I’d just like to say thanks for being active here over the weekend and trying to get to the more pressing queries (especially regarding honing, which many of us feel is the biggest hurdle for the game right now).
Do you think we’re likely to get an update on AGS/SGR intentions regarding changes (or lack thereof) to honing or materials gain within the next week or so? The reason I ask is that with threads like this ongoing many players feel backed into a sort of ‘limbo’ where they’re concerned to use materials in case of a change which gets implemented shortly after and devalues their investment. Appreciate you taking the time to answer if you get to this
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