Interesting. I never played GW2 or FF14 PvP. What I’ve seen in LoL, Rocket League, Overwatch & CSGO is that there is never a huge disparity in ELO between any of the members of a match - unless some people queue up as a team of course. Steamrolls happen in those games mostly because of smurfing it seems to me.
I understand that this problem that I see in LA could likely have to do with an attempt to reduce queue time, but AFAIK PvP comp. is across all servers of one region, meaning there “should” be enough players in theory unless it’s really unpopular. But still, since you know that it’s the same with similar other games I guess you are probably right… Nothing they can do about it in that case
I’m not sure what you mean by that. I am a believer that the ELO system is the best one, just in the case of LA it’s not applied optimally. How could this be different in your opinion? From my experience it is pretty much always like that. Just sometimes games would use things like “ranks/tiers” to reflect skill level, while hiding the actual amount of ELO (I prefer when ELO is shown)
Oh wow, I feel dumb. That’s a really good thought, I’ll keep an eye out for that.
Still, if possible, it’d be great to keep the range of ELO tighter in one match, imo, just to avoid this problem of anticipating how much you’d need to downscale a high ELO player and thus fairly matching people.
It’s really nonsensical, yea. Since nobody is allowed to queue as a team, why not just give each team one support instead of 2v0 if two supps end up in one match…
Not really working as intended in this, there isnt a HUGE difference between a 1900 player and a 3000 player as is atm. There isnt enough high ranking players so queues are currently fucked with using avg team MMR. Winrates are hugely inflated due to it and people are not eventually hitting that 50% winrate as usually fighting people of lower skills. Its way too easy to gain MMR atm as a average player.
In the games you mentioned i would assume that its the same, but since they are pvp only , this problem does not occur because the playerbase is quite large and not devided in different content, ofcourse i could be wrong on that. LA has good playerbase but its mainly focused in pve and the pvp playerbase is not that high so this problem occurs very often.
Sorry i will try to explain my self better. I dont like the scaling at the beginning of a season , it puts heavy focus on your first 100 games, you can check in top 200 people which are the with less than 100 games and now they are tanking their ELO. After the first 100 games it becomes much grindier to climb ranks and i suggested few different options which i think will make the system a bit less grindy and more rewarding.
Account the personal performance in the points calculation as it is done in GW2, for this to work properly they really need to add much more personal metrics for more accurate measurement of performance.
Use the system of WoW, in there you have a actual ELO and MMR , when your MMR os higher from your ELO you receive more point for win than lose , when your MMR is lower then your ELO you win less points then you loose b cause you higher than you should be, and when they are relatively the same you win and loose same amount of points because you are in your right rank. This i believe will make the system less grindy, because if you are winning more matches then your mmr will be higher then your elo and you will climb faster, if you loose more than winning then you will loose more points than wining and drop to the right rank faster.
Sorry for my english, and thank you for the discussion.
Nah, not really fun but the stuffs to buy is really good thing.
Balance is questionable and is more like paper, scissor and rock.
The build is mostly literal and very limited, otherwise outside of the build is too unreliable. Its getting monotonous lately.
CC stuffs okay, can manage but CC from standard attack? Ehh … it cancels any skills without superarmor easily, that’s why.
There is a problem in Coop about 2 same team seperately I got occasionally 2 supports in a first team and second one has no support. There is no option for re-position or I overlooked it?
Only I find nice about PvP, that it has “transmoq” system - you can look what you want since gears score has no influence on PvP.
There is far too much difference in how easy classes are to play. A pally or a Dblade has to perform at 50% to do what a striker, soulfist, scrapper or glaivier does putting in 100%.
You can’t just say disprove my argument about how easy pally and dblade is by saying an outdated meme. You can’t even post your rank on here and I bet you anything you dont play ranked above a gold level. prove me wrong
give it up. The pvp and matchmaking in lost ark has been like this for a few years now in both Korea and Russia version of the game. The devs should already know how broken it is but hasn’t really done much about it. As much as i would like them investing more resources to make pvp in lost ark better because I think the combat is amazing but the reality is pvp to them is an after thought and no matter how much we give feedbacks, they won’t do a damn thing. So yes “pvp is dead” is the current state.
Well unfortunately thats probably true, the main focus of the game is pve not pvp as most mmorpgs out there, they said that this year they will do more pvp changes , but we will se what will happen…
Deathblade singlehandedly killed the majority of the pvp population because of metaslaves abusing the strongest class, and now they release Destroyer which is even more insane of a class and pvp is practically dead. The population is now so low that you are guaranteed to have at least 1 deathblade in every single game, if not 2 or 3. There are 17 classes. When I ask my friends who pvp on every game why they don’t want to play Lost Ark pvp, Deathblade and Gunslingers are the reason (they quit pvp before Destroyer came out).
Not even exaggerating, in a daily session of pvp I face triple deathblade comps at least once a day. If I’m lucky, I’ll only have to deal with that once a day.
The absolute irony that Destroyer hard counters Deathblade by having more immunities is hilarious because now we get to see Deathblade players cry about something being OP since they’re no longer the top of the food chain. They wholeheartedly deserve it.
And this is before we even start to consider classes like Gunslinger exist that are insanely unfun to play again. They fish for the same flowchart combo for the entire game, and all it takes is for them to sneeze in your direction and your character has a stroke because a pellet hit their pinky toe and they writhe in agony for longer than most stuns in the game last. After they finish taking more than half of your HP, they super armor hop across the arena until their cooldowns are back up. The only classes that can even bother fighting them are other high mobility classes like martial artists. Problem is, there are barely any martial artist players because they have to put in so much more effort than a metaslave class does and they don’t think it is worth it to bother.
I’m not even going to start on the disgustingly bad matchmaking. So yeah, the moral of the story is that the pvp sucks because certain classes exist in it that push out the other 90% of classes from enjoying the game. Don’t get me wrong, pvp is insanely fun to do. That is, until you have to deal with the same abusive classes every single game.
This right here. Just think about how many classes exist in this game, and every game you have to play vs a pally, dblade or destroyer on na. Every game its on you to outplay something that requires more from you to do it, then requires from them to spam super armor and get half decent results.
For me (i am bronze) there is no problem to play against gold, diamond till in my team is one gold/diamond too imo it is nice experience to play with much better player from time to time then waiting more time for mm.
For me pvp intro takes to long time, they can cut it down by few seconds or give us option to do somethink in that time. Maybe let us take a look on oponnents skills and tripods will be good improvement.
Yea that makes sense. Even thought they have PvP across all servers, there isn’t too much interest it seems. I guess most people quit before they understand the basics. I remember getting totally slapped the first 10-20hours I played PvP. It’s not easy to get into and quite different from PvE
Agreed. Especially since in the very beginning with PvP, you are just doomed to be bad. And when you finally understand how it all works you will have to climb back to “average” (/beginner ELO) gaining less points than you previously lost per game, which was certainly frustrating for me.
I see. I suppose MMR means winrate. I usually use MMR and ELO as the same word. I can see how that would make climbing and falling quicker. Personally, I don’t feel it’s neither necessary nor would it improve the PvP experience, but I’m basically neutral towards that idea. Wouldn’t that incourage smurfing though?
You also talk about measuring personal performance and using that information to adjust ELO gain / loss from a match (if I understand correctly). I don’t think I’ve experienced such a system yet, but still:
I disagree with that and I will try to explain why. Feel free to argue/discuss my opinion on that.
1 It’s too complicated. Say one class has less damage, but lot’s of CC skills (thus helping as a peeler / creating openings for your team to engage). Just taking into account all the different things a class can do will be hard to “rate” one’s performance in a fair manner and another problem would arise:
2 Abusing the system will result in egotistical and bland choices. Generally, what I mean is, that there will also be a “meta” about that system, having the playerbase understand it as i.e. “having most damage or kills” will have the highest impact on your ELO and therefore people will a) not want to play certain classes (increasing the problem of class balance) and b) make egotistical plays, which will benefit their personal ELO gain, but be bad in terms of teamplay. That’s something I really wouldn’t want to see.
That’s too bad, makes sense… I wanted to believe they might try to imrpove it since they attached a reward structure, but I guess PvP’s just not where the money’s at so I can understand they wouldn’t want to put effort into making it a better experience.
First thank you very much for your replay and comments!
exactly!
Yes basically MMR in WoW system is a virtual ELO based on your winrate. So if your winrate is high that means your current actual rating is lower than it should be so you gain more points on win than lost, if your winrate is low then your actual rating is higher that it should be so you loose more points on lost than win.
unfortunately i dont know how that would work in a SoloQ system so i am sorry but i cannot answer that question. I have seen that system in WoW which is teamQ only. They added soloQ recently and i didn’t tried it so i dont know how it works now
Fair enough concerns. I have seen such type of system in GW2 and it works quite well there in my opinion, but also pvp there has some differences, the ranked pvp is mostly objective based not kill/arena based and its 5v5 not 3v3. In objective based pvp its much easier to measure contribution than in arena so i agree that the algorithm would become complicated thats why i suggested the other solution with the winrate as an alternative.
Here is a link with more detailed explanation of how GW2 Matchmaking and MMR works.
… try again angry boy
imo it is nice experience to play with much better player from time to time then waiting more time for mm.