How much spec do I need for igniter build?

Class Discussion Class Discussion
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@AyayaWhen Level 8 cd on doomsday is more than enough along with yearning buff from supports and leg galewind.
It would be great if you dont teach people something incorrect due to your inability to do so.
Full spec + crit is the way to go for igniter build.
For lack of crits, you have hallucination set. You almost always get crits on the big 3 spells.

@MrHappy Yes. You cast doomsday, as its about to land, you use igniter reducing all cd’s in half and you are able to land another one. Level 8 cd helps you land the 2nd doomsday consistently within the igniter so you can have massive burst.

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You don’t need more then a lvl 8 you can even do it with a 7 however the window is really tight. The Yearning Set buff from your support is what makes up the slight difference. Your rotation on igniter should be DD > Frost Call > Ignite > Fireball > Animation cancel into lightning strike > esoteric > DD

You should be casting the second DD as soon as its CD hits zero you don’t have time or room to play around or lock yourself inside another skill before casting it. Luckily while its important to get your second DD off, the majority of your damage as igniter is front loaded. Roughly 80% of your damage will come out as soon as that first DD lands. The second is extra though a nice bit of extra.

Hallucination is nice however a fairly substantial loss in DPS on your ceiling IFAIK. Personally I’ll be taking the ceiling hit when November rolls around and we see the Hallucination change but for now I’ll be sticking with Nightmare until then. I haven’t researched a ton into it. But my understanding is that pre-change its a pain to maintain and after since it becomes easier to maintain its much comfier. However you take that ceiling hit, but my guess is if I can get more DD to crit more that makes up the difference because nothing sucks more then going into igniter and watching a bunch of white numbers pop up.

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It’s not inability I am just someone who does build tests in real world scenarios and not on a useless static target dummy like you guys. So for 1 you are assuming you always have a support there which is wrong straight away and then you are assuming your first and second cast will never need 1 second to space bar out of on ability or attack then re cast because that 1 second is enough to make sure the second dd is not in the ignite buff any more. Hallucination set is also insanely bad advice. Nightmare is already 100% tested and proven to big igniter sorc best relic set by a mile.

How can you even comment about miss information then come here and tell him so much wrong info? It’s up to you op. You can listen to these target dummy theorycrafters or you can listen to me who actually tests builds in raids understanding that bosses don’t always give you a 100% no movement window to cast the second the cooldown ends. When you are relying on party synergy and a static boss to hit 2 dd then you are doing it wrong. 2dd full spec is made in the kr server for people with lvl 10 gem.

The other guy replied as im typing “you can get the window with support buff it’s just really tight” That’s exactly the point I made and a point target dummy testers don’t understand. You can’t rely on a 1 second or less window in raids. Boss moves you lost timing window. Boss attacks you have to move because it will interrupt the cast anyway even if you don’t. Don’t listen to people who use target dummies as a test for any type of build including streamers. At least certain streamers who test at trixon say after "yea but this is unreal because you are never just standing still fighting a static boss.

Will also say im not lacking recourses to test things outside of target dummies which again these people test at which provide fake results. The end result is full spec lvl 8 gem you will miss most of your second ignite dd from either timing or flat out missing the boss because it moved but you don’t have time to correct the aim or the ignite buff ends. lvl 10 cd dd is needed for CONSITENT always landing of 2 dd with room to account for boss attacks and movement.

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Tbh, if you are missing your second DD due to the CD gem you ignited wrong or misjudged the boss pattern to begin with. Igniter is rewarded with boss and fight knowledge because of the time our spells take to finish and hit. Not saying your wrong, the level 10 helps but to flat out tell someone you cant do it without a 10 is also outright misinformation. I’ve been doing it with a level 8 since Valtan NM. Its not that hard and the window isn’t that tight, you just have to understand the boss pattern and prep properly. Also if you’re going to quote what I said at least use the entire quote. You can safely Double DD with a level 8 and the window even better with the support buff. But the 7 is extremely tight and can be tick dependent without a support buff. Dropping 200 or so spec as you suggest is something like a 75% Efficiency loss which is absolutely massive as 1600 is something like 520% efficiency. Dropping that down to 450% would be a massive loss in damage.

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Here you go from google because English is not many peoples first language.
Consistent: acting or done in the same way over time, especially so as to be fair or accurate.

Please show me in any of my comments where I said it can’t be done with lvl 8 cd gem? I said it can be done but if boss attacks you in that window you lose your second dd. If the boss moves in second dd you lose it. This is why I know you are a target dummy tester. Because these are not factors you need to take in to real bosses. It’s also not about knowing patterns and mechanics at all. There are windows where the boss is static for each boss but are you telling me you are saving your ignite for that everytime? Because that is a massive dps loss. If you are waiting for specific patterns to use ignite you are losing so much dps compared to using it hitting it and re charging your meter all in the time you are waiting for the “perfect” time to ignite.

All your points on lvl 8 cd dd being good rely on both having certain class party members which you wont in a lot of content and then also holding your ignites for certain patterns which is wasting multiple ignites over the fight which is obviously a massive dps loss it’s self. Again I am not saying what is possible or not here. I am saying what is consistent and good for what you have at the time. By the time you upgrade your gems you can move to full spec for the best build but I don’t believe at all people with only lvl 8 gems should be going full spec.

At the end of the day op just choose if you prefer consistency or higher damage ceiling more. But don’t let liars trick you into thinking you are going to land most of your 2nd dd ignites with lvl 8 or less cooldown gem. It’s also not a skill discussion as bosses have random attack and movement patterns outside of mechanics and if you are waiting for mechanics to pop ignite to get the 100% hit you are playing wrong. My reply was built on the understanding OP is a new player so I chose what I thought is better for him.

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You seem to read between the lines way to much.

Hallucination set is also insanely bad advice. Nightmare is already 100% tested and proven to big igniter sorc best relic set by a mile.

First of all, i never said it triumps nightmare. From a ceiling perspective, yeah nightmare is better. From a consistancy perspective, hallucination is much better (specially when you lack crit synergy, which is not that hard). Also, since you know about KR so much, just for you knowledge, Hallucination is slowly picking up pace and people are starting to switch from nightmare.

So for 1 you are assuming you always have a support there which is wrong straight away

Support buffs last 15 secs, if you cant move in the support buff for that much duration, there is simply something wrong with your gameplay.

Will also say im not lacking recourses to test things outside of target dummies which again these people test at which provide fake results.

I have been doing the highest content of lost ark on a week to week basis. In 80-90% situations i dont miss double doomsday. Also, you simply do not understand the important of spec on a spec class like sorc. Its a massive difference. Again, since you like KR so much, none of them run swiftness over spec on ring even without lvl 10 gems.

Here you go from google because English is not many peoples first language.
Consistent: acting or done in the same way over time, especially so as to be fair or accurate.

Here you preach about consistancy but then say hallucination is insanely bad advice. Either you dont know how hallucination works and how it is better over nightmare for certain things or you are plain ignorant.

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Showing off ilvl doesnt mean jack shit about how good you are at the game or understand stuff about the game. I myself have a 1490 sorc. My knowledge about sorc isnt defined by my ilvl, nor do i need to show it to make my point.

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Pretty defensive aren’t you? I would consider it pretty rude the way you approach my response and the other persons response. You can sit and preach about needing level 10’s all day if you want but don’t lead others on saying you can’t consistently land DD without a 10. Same as @Meathook I play in the highest content we currently have available I have absolutely zero issues landing both meteors inside igniter. You are more then welcome to invest into a level 10 it absolutely will give you more time and be comfier. But everything you keep holding onto is attacking our stances that the person does not need that level of gem nor should they be sacrificing 75% efficiency for it. Even with a 10 there are plenty of patterns that a boss can do that no matter how high your gem is the CD wont make a difference due to the movement of the pattern or the time of the pattern.

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I mean you two are just flat out lying about landing ignited dd “90% of the time” with a lvl 8 or less gem and zero swiftness lol. I can land it 100% of the time in target dummy im a good player right. I can land it 100% of time if i sit on my ignite and wait for static boss mechanics too im a good player right? Except no because in the time you are holding on to your ignites waiting for certain mechanics ive used ignite gone through rotation and charged spec bar 80% again ready for next ignite before you have even done it once.

Only unknowledgeable players speak on numbers alone. That’s why I talk about actual gameplay and not target dummy players like your self. I know you guys aren’t doing clown if you are talking about bosses being static lol. Clown all phases he is static for about 10% of the fight if that. What is this “75% less efficacy” if I use ignite over twice as much as you in a single fight? Then what are the real damage numbers? You speak like a damage per screenshot player which is why before i got my lvl 10 gem and swapped my build I would beat full spec sorcs every time. “I did over 200m damage in my ignite window why am i only stagger dealt in mvp screen I don’t understand”

And no if you still don’t understand lvl 10 gem is literally enough time to fix every problem. With lvl 10 gem 0 swift you can still space bar out of any attack or cancel your cast and target the bosses new location and always still be in ignite buff by the time 2nd dd lands. It literally is the difference required in timing. Why are you speaking to me like you guys understand when you don’t even own the gear to have tested it your self lol. Once again let me guess “i tested it in target dummy so I understand” right?

I have said this many times now to the point im getting bored because you are just lying. Lvl 8 gem can double dd but you are much more realiant on having a support (you don’t always have a support in content many people even run full dps valtan and vykas now because lack of supports and healing not being needed) and then the boss being kind enough to stay still and not attack you during your second dd. Again something 100% out of your control nothing at all to do with skill. With a lvl 10 gem it factually removes every negative and requirement that you have with an issue with a lvl 8 gem.

You are whining about me nitpicking your points but all you are doing is whining about what I have said? 1 ring worth of spec moved to swift with low lvl gems gives you a 100% hit rate on 2nd dd ignite for a very minimal loss of spec. The stats on a relic ring are so small you can literally get back the spec you go by having 1 swift ring by getting high quality spec on all your other accessories. Just because you are a damage screenshot player doesn’t mean you need to push that on to others. People will do more damage over the entire boss fight not just in ignite with my build than yours.

But keep spreading misinformation if you want. You likely just maxroll your build and call it a day without any understanding or logic to back up why the build works and what you need to make it work. Same type of igniter sorcs who don’t to mana management and don’t understand why their damage is bad too lol.

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Whatever dude, you do you. Never once have myself or @Meathook said anything about the target dummy, you are the only one assuming and saying anything in that regard then flat out calling us liars. You sit and insult us claiming we don’t know what we’re talking about and other such things. You spent 300k on a level 10 gem and have a bigger DD window congratz dude. You win the igniter sorc game. I can prove I do clown but why would I? You’ll come up with yet another excuse to try to call me a liar and tell me how I’m wrong and playing inefficiently. I’m over it.

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My bad, I will dumb down why I understand what you were doing if you didn’t get it.

You are speaking about lvl 10 gems but you don’t own them. The only way to test lvl 10 gems if you don’t own them is at target dummy. Call my sherlock for that detective work, thanks.

You are the one constantly speaking about efficiency of a bit more spec for more damage and then saying “i can hit my dd because I wait for the right pattern” which should be common sense if you are waiting for specific patterns to use ignite you are losing a massive amount of damage by sitting on what your entire build is made for. That’s like telling a full spec SH charge your bar but wait for the right time to go into demonic mode. Literally no logic you are wasting so much dps playing like that all because you are scared to miss the dd because you have built your self into a horrible timing window.

I am not assuming nor accusing anything. I am reading what you have told me and telling you that is not the most optimal way to play the class. You also have spoke about the best and most efficient built from your first comment so don’t then try to come and say “whatever dude idc what is the best” when proven wrong. This is a class guide. I will tell a person what is best for where they are currently at in game. If you ask what is the best sorc endgame build then you can always tell people full spec because that is 100% true. I think op made clear he is no where near end game if you want to stop whining at me for 1 second and go actually read his comment again. People so quick to try and flex their ego without understanding different people have different situations and the game is not so simple that 1 build = best for everyone at every point. Do you not watch any streams and see the KR streamers laugh at people and call them idiots for trying to copy kr builds when they literally don’t work with the stats a NA player can get in relic gear or at their gem lvl?

Like legit just try to think a tiny bit past "me build all spec me see bigger number must be best :+1:

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Thank you for all the insights everyone

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From what I get you use igniter as soon as bar gets full am I correct

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Here, even though he’ll complain it’s “not real world” the difference between the 2 gems is 1 tick inside igniter, no bard buff, no attack speed buffs, just raw spec. If you are missing because of that one tick then you likely just were standing in the wrong spot or picked the wrong pattern to ignite on initially or just flat got unlucky. It happens.

As soon as you pop Igniter both gems result in DD being at 12 seconds remaining on its CD, Swiftness would help here and so does the Yearning buff as it speeds up the animations, but Igniter sorcs will get a bit better with it when we get bracelets for that little bit of swiftness to allow for comfort without forgoing Spec scaling. So Spend 60k or spend 320k when you pop igniter the remaining CD is almost exactly the same.

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I agree w you. I main 1510 ref cast sorc but also have a 1460 igniter one. I only use level 8 cd gem for dd. No swift. Most of the time I hit double it isnt even that complicated :rofl::rofl: you don’t of course use igniter as soon as bar gets full. You gotta keep the boss’ attack patterns in mind and party buffs too. Thats why I was curious, from his posts I got that he uses his igniter as soon as he can without thinking about buffs or boss’ attacks :thinking:

Also for the op, since you are using argos set you have enough crit, you can prefer swift on necklace with spec and other all accs spec.** You will still hit enough crits because of argos set. I play with precise dagger also it used to help when I didn’t have my level 8 dd cd gem. When you get it you can switch swift spec neck to crit spec

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dude i’m igniter with lvl 8cd gem and i hit double meteor IN REAL BOSS FIGHTS NOT DUMMIES ALWAYS. just get gud and stop arguing and spreading wrong info u dont need 9 or 10.

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Ok I also have question, I am casting doomsday gonna activate igniter but damn boss knocks me up or knocks me down BOOM dd is on cd without igniter. Normally I wait for it to come up again before using igniter but I feel like I am also wasting a lot of time for to just cast 2 dds you know? Do you think I should just igniter and move on instead of waiting dd? :thinking::thinking: serious question btw. Always wanted to ask to igniter players pls enlighten me :rofl:

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yes in that case u just ignite and move on u will still have your explosion and punish strike and they hit hard dont sit and wait for dd if u fuck up. also this rarely happens cause i always get full meter then ONLY ignite if i know the boss is locked in an animation and wont try to kick or push me

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Ok thanks! Waiting really makes me feel wasting time and I knew I was actually wasting time but still I was wanting to hit those 2 dds :face_exhaling:! I will just move on if I fuck up in the future thanks!!

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I’d agree with @UnFazed you lose your Double DD but you still get roughly 80% of your igniter damage out anyways since its front loaded, you can even cancel it early. Pop do the burst and cancel don’t even use frost call or rime arrow. I feel thats a better option then waiting 25 seconds.

Of course if the boss is potentially going to transition and you missed the initial burst window like you may with say clown, you could just hold as you’ll be phasing anyways.

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Cancelling after casting ps expo 1x dd makes the most sense I think! Hadn’t thought of that. Thanks! I truly dont want to bother with clown my igniter sorc is staying 1460 for a while :rofl: