But people do not want to get better. They want to just be better.
Jokes aside, thanks for taking the time to help your fellow players. Both your guides are bookmarked and even if your post doesn’t get much friction in these forums rest assured that players that start from the bottom and indeed want to get better will appreciate your effort. There is not much detailed information in non-class specific pvp guides in the internet.
Thanks for your answers, I am glad to share my knowledge and help players.
Smilegate doesn’t bother creating tutorial to explain the mechanics and most of high mmr players don’t take the time to do it, that’s why there isn’t a lot of interesting guides in the internet.
I am open to any idea of guides, maybe one about countering classes like Sorceress, Blader , Blaster etc would interest the PvP community
If the translations of skills weren’t done by an unpaid intern using machine translation.
ie Super Armor Paralysis = Stagger
Most people don’t know any of the top players. Lucky if they go on maxroll and understand the dated builds there. It’d be more useful if you gave people resources to find top players than to tell people to find top players.
There are a few ways to find them, their build and even asking them for advices:
Below, some Builds, but be aware that for most classes there isn’t a unique viable build, tripods and sometimes skills could change depending the player.
Paladin: Paladin Build #7034 - Lost Arkive from Myself
Gunslinger : twitch.tv/katanazera GM pvp 3v3 build - Lost Arkive from KatanaZera
Demonic : twitch.tv/katanazera GM pvp 3v3 build - Lost Arkive from KatanaZera
Sorceress : twitch.tv/katanazera GM pvp 3v3 build - Lost Arkive from KatanaZera
Blade : [PVP] GM Deathblade Build/Stats twitch.tv/Sh1chisu - Lost Arkive from Shichisu
Blade: Kyvyri - Lost Arkive from Kyvyri
Soulfist: Soulfist #14526 - Skill Builds - Lost Ark Codex from HesitantAlien
Striker: Striker | LATree from Yureki
Sharpshooter: Hawk Eye | LATree from Hrunix
Scrapper : Infighter | LATree from Metoza
Arcana Evoke build: Arcana | LATree
Destroyer : Yié - Skill Builds - Lost Ark Codex Elr build from Yie
Hasn’t there been meta shifts since these tournaments? Especially given the most recent PTR notes is a notable hit to Demonic (Shadowhunter) which is less represented from these.
Pretty sure Wardancer was highly regarded in these tournaments, I know Wardancer had like the highest winrate in the KR qualifiers and they definitely have fallen below Striker.
Perhaps why you don’t have the builds for either of the Wardancers from the Arkives tournament?
Meta is rarely moving especially in soloQ, even the recent ptr notes won’t change much about builds.
Check the Royal Roaders vod linked above for the builds missing, i don’t have the ones from top Eu/Na players
Paladin: Paladin Build #7034 - Lost Arkive from Myself
Pretty much the standard build, although I’ll always be on the lvl7 shield side.
I think having 10s lower cooldown is way more valuable if you’re good at actually blocking damage with it and not just spamming it for the sake of it.
And I feel like lvl10 executioner sword is huge damage boost you can easily land, so I run that at lvl10 with spin at lvl7. Kept switching back and forth between executioner and spin and I just prefer the sword, even though light explosion is a really good tripod.
Having 10s higher cooldown and restoring Hp to your whole team is way more efficient and increase your sustain, which combined with your damage reduction skills and shields make it very strong.
I don’t recommend lvl 7 spin because you lose your only T2 SA of the build which makes you very vulnerable and while spinning you become an even easier target.
For these reasons and due to the skill points limitation, it’s better for a Paladin to max 7 skills to lvl 10 and having one at lvl 4 which is Executioner sword used for the knock up CC and little mobility, and not really for the damage which remains pretty low compare to heavenly blessings or Holy sword.
The specificity of my build comes from the stats distribution, endurance to boost your shields and defense, domination to increase your damage in true combo a little, and a bit of spec because having your identity earlier can be really huge and is way more effective than 20 more points in dom and obviously 1 crit for the luck factor.
I didn’t even see the stats as the bottom, but yeah, that’s the “my team knows what they’re doing build”. I’m not going back to that build ever again. I just run 250domination. I’ve lost way too many games because people are just useless and with damage build you can at least make up for some of their cluelesness while still having like 80% of the support ability.
Since I started PvPing on my SH and Destroyer, I was just amazed how much easier it is to win games by yourself. While Paladin might be S tier when everyone knows what they’re doing, there’s no point in playing it if almost every game at least one of your teammates is like 300+ rating below you.
This is the final week before I get Extreme and I’m done with PvP for the season. Just want the titles. If I get on a massive winning streak I might even hit Diamond, but honestly I just don’t care. As someone who pretty much exclusively played PvP games over the past decade it’s just disgustingly bad.
I regret playing it so much, but here we are. I’m just done with horrible rank spread and team comps in matches. Sure, being a better player beats any team comp, but that doesn’t mean I enjoy playing ridiculously bad team comps every single day. The other day when I was on my Paladin I had another support with me in believe it or not 7 out of 11 games, then I switched to my SH and had 1 support in 13 games. Just amazing.
Don’t get me wrong, everyone who reached Master is a highly skilled player and obviously better than me in this game, but my opinion is that you’re wasting your time playing PvP in this game that not even the devs care about instead of improving your skills in actual PvP games.
I think there are meaningful shifts in soloQ comparing March/April til now.
Especially given Destroyer and Glaivier releases.
It’s also notable given that there are meta differences between the regions as we can see if we go through Arkives invitationals just comparing the NA invitationals vs the EU that you linked.
There’s even a meta difference between NA E and NA W from these.
What’s most notable is that NA E has the “weird” meta being that of these regions, we see Scrapper, Sorc, Glaivier, Gunlancer (enough that theres a Gunlancer mirror match), Artillerist. These are all classes that are absent from NA W and EU that brings Wardancer which doesn’t exist for NA E.
So to say there isn’t a shifting meta is very strange when the meta shifts if you so much as change your server.
Dectecting shifts in the meta by comparing regions of different playstyle and level isn’t relevant while detecting a shift in the meta of a same region is way more interesting.
I don’t define meta only by popularity but also by efficiency and strengh. The best classes are still the same, the best comps don’t change much even with the new classes, a few more choices, that’s not what i call a shift in the meta.
The tier list in soloQ after month doesn’t change much despite the new releases, this lack of change was already the same in the past until the swiftness nerf and fov up then the damage reduction nerf but these patch are rare and due to that the meta is rarely moving.
S+: Gunslinger > Blade
S: Shadowhunter
A: Paladin > Wardancer > Gunlancer > Striker > Bard > Destroyer
B: Dead Eye > Berserker > Glavier > Artillerist > Sorceress> Arcana
C: Sharpshooter > Scrapper > Soulfist
Great post, but in all honesty pvp in this game is just a mess. I got my epic crest and that’s it. I had to bite the pullet and drag myself through the pvp awful experience this game offers to get the crest. Never ever touching it ever again.
If i want some actual real decent competitive pvp experience then I just play CSGO or Dota 2 or Valorant or Apex Legends.
Overarching “best classes” while ignoring the playstyles of a region makes no sense.
If this “best classes” were legitimate and true, it would bear out that every region would naturally all reflect this and all be playing mirror comps.
We see this in games more respected for their PvP aspects or games designed specifically for competition.
Like you don’t play Counterstrike and suddenly see Swedish teams using a different rifle than a Danish team using different rifles than an American team.
It could have been a good argument if I hadn’t play in the 5 regions : EUC, EUW, NAE, NAW, KR and if the regions were equivalent in level. Having different playstyle doesn’t change fundamentally the strengths and weaknesses of a class or composition but the use of them.
Moreover, I should have precise it but this tier list is made for SoloQ and even if I had made one for team, having broken classes don’t result in mirror match up due to the lack of players able to play the classes at high level.
It could perhaps appear if the PvP was more popular and developed in competition.
For example, Gunslinger, Blade, Bard is a broken comp which did good results in tourney in EU and NA. This comp is here since the Eu/NA release and even after the Kr ptr changes it will remain broken
You argue your list is for soloQ, then you argue the results of a specific comp lineup which requires teamplay and coordination which you wouldn’t get in soloQ and didn’t win in any of the 3 Western regions.
The data and your contradicting statements don’t match up.
Further, even if Gunslinger/Blade/Bard were a cracked comp, breaking them up individually doesn’t necessarily indicate that they would be cracked in soloQ. You’d have to assert that under any circumstance, regardless of the specific playstyles of any region, that based on your list, Gunslinger will carry any team facing any opponent better than any other class.
But you offer nothing to back this up other than “trust me bro”. The tournaments results don’t back this up. The representation numbers don’t back this up.
Contextually, with nothing elaborating on your list and nothing to back it up, this is about as useful as that other guy who always cries about sorceress being OP.
I don’t know where your aggressive tone comes from, but i will answer.
I precised that my soloQ tier list isn’t changing much despite the patch, then that a comp is top tier since the EU/NA release showing the meta in team isn’t shifting much. I am not trying to use one to justify or prove the other. I didn’t think it would be hard for you to understand this.
Secondly, maybe you didn’t follow the biggest tournaments but you would have known that
If you want me to go in details to explain every of my choices in the tier lists, i can, but it wasn’t the initial goal of the topic.
I also mentioned in my previous posts the difference of level between regions and the abilities of players to play some classes at high elo, couting NAW in your stats is the same as couting Oceania for League of Legends, it’s not relevant. And NAE is not that far from it but is catching up little by little with a few really good teams and players.
Lastly a bit of flexing
Contextually, when someone peaked rank 1 in EUC/EUW/NAE and won most of the “huge” tourneys, if you could trust me just a little bit, i would be glad. 
Hello @Wseno,
Would it be to much to ask for a list how team mates should position in various comps? I would especially be interested in compositions with a bard.
I am struggling with comps like shadowhunder and sorc, two extreme long range players, though I understood, SH could also play frontline ie. switch, if I came with her, but if both play long range its difficult for me (playing rather close than middle range) to not get shredded in-between.
Sometimes I just provoke it, depending on the overall match so both have something to focus on when enemies sit on me.
Edit: I just would just like to know if a team mate should have filled another position he/she has played in a game to understand why things happend or turned out like that.
I also struggle with teammates who are hesitant to attack, which also means I have no backline at all, as they get either cornered or just killed in front of the goal, which forces me wasting my awaking very early in the game (I ve already asked on discord, and that was the solution).
I have also problems with teammates not peeling for me. Even if I ping, they sometimes mock and ping back, or write “dont ping, play”. Though I believe bard is the squishiest in the game and an easy target, or free kill with or without shields. I dont mind dying. But if the bard dies too often the other two might miss the attack buff necessary in that situation to compensate what the bard cannot do.
I can defend myself until a certain point, but when skills run out, I m a sitting duck.
I have also learned from the discord LOA that I should draw the enemy towards my team mates, but sometimes they just ignore me and walk after their own enemy. Like “I leave you the one, I get my own enemy, so everyone has an enemy.” Yeah, right…
I also have the feeling they just do not count team mates and enemies in the arena, which I usually do. I usually pick one to babysit more, which is my better class to work with, but I acutally walk a bit around to see, if they are still happy. If my better class has just one enemy I just go with the other. But none of my team mates mostly does that. They both can just have one enemy and leave me beaten up by two.
I could be caught in the beginning, like being stunned by the gunslinger and they continue to walking north. I m just dead if they do that.
And because of that I have already started to try my one on one skills in game to just being able to defend myself (which turns out not being viable, as there could be a second enemy helping out). So one on one skilling just works in one on one very well.
I believe there is no solution to that. They either peel or peel not. I have no influcence on other players, except of pinging. If they ignore it, I cant help it, right?
Sometimes I also have the feeling that they do not see me, although I am left or right from our box and one dead player arises, goes into the Arena and passes me, and let me to die with the enemy. If I wake up in the box, I can usually see whats happening left or right. Do they just ignore me? Or are they that inexperienced and just rushing by.
Does each party member have the same FOV? I thought only the opposite team has a different view.
As you mentioned to play with, watch and learn from better players, I had one game with two artis and I didnt even know at least one was a master. They both “stormed” 
the other goal, my little bard had difficulties to catch up with, not being used to walk that far at the beginning, at least no with artis, with blades maybe.
Until I arrived, the first enemy was almost dead. A couple of seconds later, all three of them were dead while we had almost all of our HP.
And I thought by myself “Kewl thats my bard’s taste of aggro team mates, I have so much space for my backline”.
Actually, I was just startled and amazed what was happening at all. I ve never experienced artis to be so aggressive and even fast for their pace. Fortunately I could watch and learn how artis should do, but I ve never met a master bard doing normals so far.
I have also done ranked and worked my way yes from copper wihtout the 250 plus until the upper part of gold with a win ratio of 60% and was really excited until I suddenly got masters and copper players in games and lost lots of MMR until mid silver.
I have learned that the new players already start in silver which is a revelation for me to understand the bad quality of games in that range.
When I started, there was at least some kind of strategy to notice, pinging backwards when skills were on cooldown, marking someone when they had no roll, even team mates used my healing circles and even interrupted their “bloodrush” for it, pinging when we have to lean back in advantage and wait for the time to run out, and not fighting the whole time. The dynamic within the team was so exciting and the feeling winning through teamwork was so amazing.
Now its just aping. So I stopped for the moment, waiting for the patch to come out in September hoping new players start in a lower ranks and the bad ones have been lowered to copper by then. At the moment in silver its just like normal matches. Its rather luck than skill.
I have been also recommended by the discord LOA fellows to create a smurf to have a taste whats the matchmaking is going to be that day. I am still wating for the power passes to be reactivated.
How do I find out who my better player is if both classes are equally suited to proxy for a bard?
For example in a comp with sorc, arti and bard.
I usually tend to foster the sorc, as she has no immunities, arti can eventually put on his shield. But what if it turns out that she cannot land a single skill despite peeling for her, should I then just focus on keeping her alive if she will be focused? Provided two enemies pressure her.
And on the other hand with regard to the attack buff focus on the arti when he lands a skill?
How do I find out quickly who is the better player?
I ve also found out that the majority of people tends towards going right “loving” to get cornered in the right corner. You can ping in advance to go left, they just wont listen.
An explanation may be that most of the Europeans drive on the right hand side? I dont know.
I d be happy if you have some recommendations to solve my problems.
If not, I would be happy to just learn, if I have influence as bard of some sort or not.
Many thanks in advance and cheers! 
Hello @Ouvertuere,
There is one really important concept in Lost Ark: You should try with your team to occupy as much space as possible to dominate the map and pressure the opponents.
As a Bard, you have to master your kit to have a better control of the map :
The best positioning for the class is the triangle formation allowing you to have in your fov both of your allies while being at proximity and ready to peel them :
You should stay behind your mates to maintain this triangle even when they are pushing, obviously you won’t always stay near the middle because you will have to get in range to peel your mates on sides
You already know it, compositions without any frontline aren’t the best for Bard because finding a safe positioning is way harder especially if your team isn’t trying to push, you have 3 choices:
Most of players prefer controlling the top and sometimes forget the bottom, that’s why pushing to C2 can be really interesting, in C2 if you manage to spot a duelist class rushing for you, don’t hesitate to retreat to C1, however if you are alone, you will be able to surprise the opponents by going in their back to put a stun/Aoe, or peeling your mates fighting in B2 while being completely safe.
Secondly if you manage to attracts 2 players or even the whole opposite team near the bottom, your mate in A1 will have a good opportunity to engage.
This is the worst scenario where your mates are really afraid to engage while the opponents are pushing and controlling 2/3 of the map, in this situation, returning to the base (until the fire appears) to create the triangle formation can be interesting.
You will be able to safely peel for your mate, to bait a player into your base to catch him, and to force your mates to do something
In this case you need several things:
If a player is chasing you and your mates are not reacting, you can attract him near one of your mate, outplay him, survive as long as possible and hope that your mates are winning in 2v2, lastly going in the fire of your base.
A little tips: if you are about to die, try to do it near the ennemy base, so you have time to respawn and get out of their focus.
Yes each party member have the same kind of FOV, obviously they don’t see exactly the same as you because you don’t have the same position on the map so sometimes you could be in their blind spot.
This is false in general, obviously sometimes you can be unlucky with your mates or matchmaking, but if you have the skill and keep improving, you will achieve your goal. Moreover, facing higher mmr players in ranked could be interesting to acquiere experience. Recording some of your games to analyze them and ask for advices can also be a great source of information.
Yes this is a good idea for : pushing your limits, training, testing, mental (you won’t be afraid of playing in ranked and lose mmr).
There is a hidden mmr in normal game, if you play enough games, you could meet a few good players.
You don’t, that’s not how you should reflect. For example if you only peel your best player, the worse one could solo lose the game. You are playing in 3v3, you should look for the best move in each situation and to do that, you need to understand the classes you are playing with and against, which is why I recommend you to play the other classes to increase your knowledge about them.
For the fundamentals of positioning i made this guide which could interest you :
Nice troll, you can dislike the PvP but don’t be a jerk by discouraging the others and giving bad advices.
The only thing you are doing is ridiculising yourself.
I mean i came here to complain but i saw your post and decided to read it and i’m still gonna complain anyways.
I’m playing super casually and im at 1900-2100 and honestly this game hardly even feels skill based. Sure there is some skill element but its extremely low, it feels like you can only influence 3% of the games you play. If not 3% then it’s still a small number, most of the games are auto-win or auto-loss and yeah yeah i know good players have smurfs and they eventually get high but in your case you probably have thousands of hours of advantage over your enemies.
I don’t believe the game has much room for skill expression because the cooldowns are high and the executions are fairly simple and you’re fairly limited to what you can do. At least with the classes i tried.
Don’t get me wrong, its obvious that the game requires some amount of skill but it just isn’t satisfying enough. I can’t bring myself to take this game serious because soloq in 3v3 is shit and because there are isn’t a single class that i’ve tried so far (out of like 9) that i even enjoy playing.
I want to play summoner as i tried LA for like 10h in RU as summoner way back in like 2019 but they keep delaying the class and im sure when it comes out i probably won’t even like it that much.
I would spam arena if it felt satisfying but it doesn’t, it feels like im forced into shitty 50/50s all the time. If i play too agro to zone/pressure the enemy and i get focused - nobody peels. If i play too defensive then my team just goes in and suicides consistently, finding a balance seems extremely hard and most importantly - unfun.
It doesn’t help that the pvp playerbase is pretty much dead and i’ve been top player in every other mmo i’ve played , including rank 1 in another game’s arena and i was doing the same stuff > trying to get more people interested in the game so that arena can be more alive. The problem is that lost ark’s pvp feels garbage, idk how they managed to do that but i think its a combination between you not being able to do much as an individual on most classes.
I have a SH (not main, i mained sorc and i believe she’s garbage and not to mention unfun) and i wonder why is it S tier in your list? It has no superarmor and if people don’t let them free cast they’re not that good… plus they get countered by like every melee in the game.
