How to keep hardcore players playing (no p2w)?

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13

I wouldnt say it doesnt fit with our market wholistically. I just think that a lot of people misunderstood the kind of game that it is. Its supposed to have something for many different styles of gamer. Unfortunately the more hardcore players were expecting to 100% the dungeon content and forgot about the rest of the game in doing so. But as you said, its definitely not their fault necessarily either. It was marketed as a purely hardcore experience by most content creators when its more of a 50/50.

Id say its a lot like ff14 if it was a f2p game first. If all you wanted to do was sit at end game and run your dailies and weeklies youd end up like quinn

I loved ff14 but hate tab targetting. This game fills the spot i needed it to to get me out of league and im a way happier person for it. Ill be the biggest shill if thats what it takes to feel the way i did playing on RU the first time. In a lot of ways i already do

14

What other MMOs have you going straight into raid content without getting geared for it? I think people are forgetting that T3 is the endgame. If everyone is getting to do the new content just because they logged in then there wouldn’t be anything to do.

There is an argument for there not being enough avenues to farm mats like there is in KR/RU, but complaining about honing rates is pointless. I rarely see people whine about drop rates in other MMOs and a single BiS in those games could take months to get.

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15

What other MMOs don’t even allow you to progress to the endgame story/quest tier without running an RNG gauntlet akin to the end of T2?

T3 isn’t just a big mythic raid. It’s an entire tier of content that is gated behind a substantial RNG wall. It’s as if WoW required players to progress through the endgame of the prior 2 expansions, and gear up in them with full RNG in place for drops and so on, before even being able to set foot in the current endgame. No other MMO has ever done that.

16

What other MMOs don’t even allow you to progress to the endgame story/quest tier without running an RNG gauntlet akin to the end of T2?

Sure, that should get changed, but this version has basically no T3 content. Argos is one thing out of a ton of stuff we don’t have. The first time T2 honing has to make up for that, and considering many people still aren’t in T3, it sounds like it’s currently doing it’s job while they line up an actual content patch.

If they haven’t added guaranteed honing chances to T1 and T2 by the time this game has more than one piece of T3 then you would have something to complain about. But it honestly sounds like you want to be able to do the endgame content the second it launches, which isn’t going to happen because that’s not a thing in 99% of MMOs including this one. That ilvl is the time gate that attunement or gearing are in other games and it’s not going away.

17

I mean if you want tons of gold yeah thats the way to go, but if you are going to save all the gold, sell all the mats and then cry cuz your ilvl isn’t enough for new content… The people created that “wall” that “dead zone” cuz they literally don’t want to progress. They just want to stock pile gold as a bot and make ags push their ilvls for free.

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18

No the issue is that the game acts like it has three endgames.

In a normal game, you advance up to the level of endgame easily enough and then you really slow down before you can access the tougher more rewarding content at the endgame level. There is entry level endgame and then the harder content which is gated.

In this game, the entire endgame tier, both the entry level content and the rest of it (now that Argos is here) is gated, so you’re playing a game that requires you to complete an endgame before you get to the actual endgame tier, even the entry level part of that tier.

That’s a crazy, cocked-up design which was certain to infuriate players.

The reasonable options were either

(1) Launch without T3, have T2 be the endgame initially and let the playerbase advance for 2-3 months before you release T3, and then when you release T3, release a good chunk of it, not just the entry level but also the harder content that is gated behind hard RNG.

or

(2) Launch with T3, both entry level and that good chunk of gated content, but then don’t treat T2 like a mini-endgame, but make it like KR and RU so that players progress through T1 and T2 and then hit the progression wall in the actual current endgame, which is T3, the way it works in all other MMOs.

Here they tried a hybrid, bastardized design that has players go through a mini endgame in T2 when T2 is not at all an endgame, and then use the excuse that there is not enough content in T3 to do it otherwise, when in fact the content that is not included in T3 is completely available (or should be) because it has been released in other regions a long time ago. It’s a terrible design.

19

Like KR, like KR, like KR you guys are such a broken record its exhausting.

I would have liked to see honing rate changes with Argos or more T3 mats but they got a good chunk of the playerbase to a T3 item level and now have to add in content. If all you wanted to do was make your number as big as possible as soon as possible youre missing the point of the game. There isnt anything to do after Argos anyways, why does it even matter? To be bored for 3 weeks while you wait for the next thing? Then complain about that?

Its a weekly roster bound lockout. You only get one clear per week. You still are stuck doing the other stuff in that time while you wait for the rest of the content.

Its not KR, its NA. We are missing 90% of our T3 content and the devs already had enough on their plate just making the game playable for the insane amount of players that joined as well as removing bots and bug fixes. If you guys want to see more content get delayed keep whining about how AGS is so bad and only letting whales play the game while you ignore the other 90% of the game that is out right now. Its so tiresome arguing this same thing over and over again. SG and AGS will handle it. Either look for something to do in the game and progress horizontally for the long haul or build that rest bonus.

Your item level means basically nothing long term. Im waiting patiently and i recommend other people do too. Slamming your head into a ceiling for a 1-2 point increase that is completely worthless and whining about it is so annoying. There is more to do in this game than just dungeons and raids to get stronger

20

please stop suggesting this. I’m 1340 and my adventure tomes are pretty much maxed out except rapports, which are time gated, I have 63 island souls (I’m tired of trying for spida (cant even get enough people for spida anymore), unknown, phantomwing, harmony, yearning and all of the remaining ones are from rapports, boring as fuck), I’m tier 1 in pvp (and did a lot of pvp after reaching tier 1), got almost all giants hearts except time gated ones like tooki and nineveh, all songs are done, all emotes are done except again, time gated stuff like joy, tower is done, all life skills are above 20, stronghold is level 21… today is the first day I haven’t played since the release but this isn’t because I’m burnt out or anything. I don’t wanna play because I know my honings will fail anyway

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21

I honestly don’t get you people. According to your completion you had PLENTY PLAYTIME. Just push for 1370 if that’s what you care about. It’s bad, but not impossible. If you had spend all that time collecting random souls and shit - farming endless chaos - you’d be 1370 already.

You guys need to chill.

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22

How does playtime do anything for gear score? I don’t have time to do endless chaos as I work full time, however I still wouldn’t do chaos dungeon more than twice per day if I had time because it’s extremely boring and inefficient. Other than that, there’s nothing you can do in the game to improve your gear score. All we wanted was the game Koreans used to play 2 years ago but AGS has created an abomination of game with no way to progress. Yes, money is a way to progress and I have a shit ton of royal and blue crystals in my account but I can’t see a reason to spend it for materials because this is exactly what they wanted us to do. I won’t take the bait and I’ll stay at 1340 until this bullshit is fixed.

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“I dont have time to do endless chaos since i work fulltime” - he says with 63 Island souls to his name.
It’s actually quiite simple. You cared more about island souls than ilvl. and that’s fine. do your thing.

24

Then enlighten me how I cared more about island souls. I did chaos dungeons every day, did abyssals on time, bought all bloodstone mats, pirate coin mats, did all I could. What would change if I had 0 island souls? Where would I get my mats? I should have been doing chaos dungeons all day long instead of doing collectibles and tomes? If that’s what you’re suggesting, that’s plain dumb. I will never do a chaos dungeon more than twice per day, I’d rather alt+f4 and play something else. Because no one should be forced to do boring, repetitive, inefficient content to progress in a game. Instead of farming chaos dungeons for 10 hours, I could just work for 10 hours and make more than enough money to buy those mats I would have gotten from the dungeon, what’s the damn point? And I’m saying this as a player who’s spent thousands of hours in diablo 3, path of exile and grim dawn

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25

“Instead of farming chaos dungeons for 10 hours, I could just work for 10 hours and make more than enough money to buy those mats I would have gotten from the dungeon, what’s the damn point?”

applies to every game ever made.

It’s the journey dude. What did u use your mats you bought for? You sold them on the auctionhouse cuz mr.strimmer said so.

Also “Ineffecient content” is plain wrong. It’s the most efficient farm you can do right now.
Have you ever played Wow? Done Mythic+? Basically the same thing. u farm repetetive boring content for a few upgrades. It’s part of the game.

26

horizontal progression would be fine if it wasnt SO FKN BORiNG

who wants to kill lvl 10 monsters for 1-2 hours on his minmaxed 1370 character?
who wants to dance and sing for some emotionless npc 6 times a day?
or backtrack thorugh low level zones back and forth to collect some hidden stories that would be impossible to find without guides?
im sure some people enjoy this braindead gameplay but i certainly dont.

i mean ill do it since it gives me more power but its easily the most unenjoyable part of the game

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27

Doesn’t apply to the regular content because the regular content is fun and rewarding, definitely worth investing my time into. infinite chaos is neither rewarding nor fun. Obviously it’s a good source of mats if you do it for 6 hours every single day but what I’m saying is people can’t be forced to do it to be able to progress. This is why many people either stopped upgrading or took a break, otherwise everyone would be doing infinite chaos all day now

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28

okay. I’m 1370. 420 hours played. 200 honing fails. completely f2p. I did about ~15 hours total of endless chaos grinding.
People are SEVERELY overestimating how much it takes from 1340-1370.
granted, i used every upgrade material i got from dailys and out of gold. but selling everything u make daily is just not smart.

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29

Aight great job man i couldnt be bothered to have all of that done already. Thats quite a feat.

I generally dont expect the ppl complaining about honing rates and item levels to have all of that done yet as a general rule of thumb. It is still important to bring up in this kind of conversation as a lot of people dont seem to know how important it is.

On one hand you definitely have earned the right to complain about the honing rates and lack of mats 100%. On the other hand, how are the devs going to hold a player as dedicated as yourself back from 100%ing all of the content and literally having nothing else to do afterwards. They generally seem to not be planning on releasing content sooner than once a month. So advocating to speed all of the playerbase to 1370 might not be responsible for the game. Im gonna wait for their roadmap before i stake any hard claims as i dont have access to the player data they are looking at.

However, nice job getting all that done. Unfortunately you kinda played yourself by smashing through a f2p game thats only been out for a month

30

i agree 100% on that. peoples only worry right now is getting 1370, not realizing that there is no content at 1370 x)

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31

I’m ok with having nothing left to do, as long as I’m done with the endgame content because that’s bound to happen in every game. There’s no game this won’t happen, but this is not the case atm, as people who put hundreds of hours into the game aren’t able to enjoy the latest content while whales are already finished with the game and just making money. This isn’t how the game works in other regions and this is the main issue. AGS has altered an already successful game to make more money and simply ruined it.

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32

Yeah cus a lot of horizontal prog was supposed to be done while you were still T1/2.

Also everyone pls dont forget to do your strongholds! Being able to craft consumables is important too

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