Here’s a funny question
If someone has a roster of over 1445 chars how do they go around completing the hyper express to get the selection pack from it?
Where do you people draw the line at what is p2w and what isn’t? It feels like anything that isn’t buy to play or subscription is not p2w by how some of the arguments refuse to see reality
What? I change my gold into bluecrystals and buy pheons… dont see the p2w aspect here lol
P2W is Lost Ark ?
but you can also buy them with money 
on top of you can buy gold with money and buy all endgame accesories and engravings with it 
can i get from 0-1500 in a week with enough money?
how much time its normally taking?
some ppls says its pay to skip which is technically true but you skip boring chores that have to be repeted for months so its also p2w in my book
??? Where did that come from exctly?
The term p2w is so generic that’s its almost useless to call a game P2W.
There are many types of P2W and many factors you need to take into account.
For instance Lost Ark has P2W elements, but it’s much more F2P friendly compared to other P2W games.
Also when we talk about P2W we need to talk about what’s there to win, and how Paying to get a benefit impacts the other players as well.
So imo, Lost Ark is “Pay to progress”, not pay to win. Having a whale in your party does not work against you in this Game. Everything that a whale can get can also be earned in game.
The only thing a whale wins is TIME.
yea but time is money
so whale pay to not lose time in game he dont really have to play
funny hamster logic
there are games that put much more value on your time & money out there to 
And?
This is a subjective issue. A player might get happy when they whale to have +25 weapons on a full roster just to flex on others. Is it a waste of money? Yes. Did the player have fun with spending money althought its useless? Yes.
So what’s your point exactly.
ppls can make whatever they want with their money
subjectivley there are games that will let you flex and spend money but you will get much better value for what you spend
maybe we will get to point where KR culture is where flexing in game is more popular than having nice car/home or something that have more usage outside of just flexing 
personally i would like not tho tbh
anyhow im not making any points just saying
But this is not pay 2 win… this is pay 2 progress…
Sorry but what is this for a argument “but you can also buy them with money” ??? dafuq Im reading here 
people should first read the defninicion of p2w…
If this makes you happy I will say it. I pub a clown g3 raid with a bard. 1575 bard with all lvl 10 gems and 99% quality set gears and accessories. He/she cannot survive pass mario 3. We wiped so many times to the point we jus called it quits. No matter how much money you blow into the game if you suck it will show. You may look cool for having all the nice-looking stuff, but it won’t change a thing in how good you are as a player. It won’t even affect other players beside outside of pvp content that she/he can’t died as quick. Other than that it is just embarassing.
“It’s not P2W because you’ll get to experience everything, just later in 2034, and cosmetics are not mandatory so who cares”
“Did someone held a gun to your face to force you buying ???”
Gaming companies have really fucked up the gamers’ mentality beyond recognition tbh.
from me I gave him the truth and info not from a fanboy perspective
P2W isnt complicated, and yes, this is P2W. Everything else you wrote is just your way to rationalize it because we naturally dont like P2W. People will try to make themselves feel better about it with excuses above.
by that logic every mmo in history is p2w by the MANY definitions multiple people have.
even IF an mmo made ZERO p2w or progression in cash shop…
guess what? RMT exist
so regardless p2w will happen behind the scenes just out of sight out of mind.
so to ignore rmt which will always exist in every mmo it’s just like you said
so does it really matter? if the game sold p2w?
compared to the actual INSANE power they will get from RMT behind the scenes? it doesn’t
I would argue
the power you get from the cash shop compared to RMT is like
20% from the games cash shop compared to 80% from people who RMT in an MMO.
the difference?
one is in your face since it’s a cash shop and everyone wants to talk about it since they can see it
rmt? can’t see it and you don’t know who is doing it. so people just ignore it despite it being the real p2w
like ask yourselves…
the 1575 you seen months ago…did they actually p2w via lost ark cash shop?
or did they p2w via RMT?
lol we all know answer.
there is no clear definition of p2w,
if you have one that everyone will aggre you may make a buisnes off it
for me if you can skip hard chores and significant part of gamplay with money its p2w
you can think about it as if you get first to new Brel HC mode you can sell accessories from it for much bigger price, than ppls that will be there month later, so you can afford more cause of that and its snowballing
there is plenty of aspect to count on in it
for you it will be taking clear advantage in pvp i gues which is also correct just not really in this game (if we dont count gvg and islands ofc)
yea you can skip a lot even in wow with boosts so by that you may say it have p2w elements which is also correct, but its not that hard to get all those things without money in acceptable time and thats real difference
also its a bit of gray zone in case of wow while in LA you buy power stright from shoop or by trading crystals/skins for gold and then burn it on market
There is a definition of p2w.
You just need to google
Pay-to-win, abbreviated as P2W, describes an aspect of a game where players are allowed to get an advantage with real-world currency to purchase in-game items. The pay-to-win structure is prevalent in both multiplayer online games through DLC (downloadable content) and mobile games through in-app purchases.
Pay-to-win games usually offer better weapons, armor, character abilities, or in-game currency to players as microtransactions. The pay-to-win advantages make it harder for other players to compete if they cannot afford or do not want to purchase the same items. As the definition would imply, players essentially pay to win at a game.
You can get everything in the game by just playing… If you dont wana spent time and swip that legit… not everyone has 3-4h a day for gaming. So the game is Pay to Progress. You skipp progression with money. But swipping make you not a better player in a raid…
If you swip and we are in the same raid I dont have any negatives… on the contrary, I also benefit from the fact that you have swiped lol
A normal f2p can also hit Brel and selling mats… thats a weak point from your side.
Sure if you swip and get more alts into brel you snowball but thats not p2w
People who spent more time ingame also get more, it’s as simple as that.
how its any different from what i have sayed above?
yea but it not really have to be power
you can get power relatively easy in wow and then there are mounts cosmetics titles and so on to grind
in case of borrowed powers we could argue but there were plenty of cachups for late joiners
im sure its much less work to make gearing streched to months/years by crazy RNG and low resource dripping
than make enough differentiated content to last players for same time
Yes. 
People who never spend money on this game will have perspectives of Free2Play. And people who spend money on this game will say it’s Pay2Win.
And a streamer who get paid from AGS will say it’s free 2 play game.