The more I play this game the more I see so many people including streamers shitting on people’s good time. This game’s community is so elitist it’s like playing league of legends in plat but everyone thinks they are a challenger player, including the streamers.
Saintone seems a lot more tamed on what he says but you people are so anti anything that isn’t meta it makes you delusional.
Clearing content should always be a main goal but you do not need a meta build to clear content. With that being said some comfortability things should be taken into account when people are doing things. Seen someone ask for a budget mayhem build and was told that he should never go budget because the class itself is expensive and to just save even if it’s a alt. spend absurd inflated prices and don’t try to budget at all.
How is this game’s community supposed to help newer players get into the game and the overall longevity of the game if this is the mentality?
The class actually does have a budget swiftness build past 1445, yet so many people just foam at the mouth when hearing a different approach to anything. The end result is that the game has lost a huge amount of players and new players aren’t really enjoying end game due to the insane amount of fear mongering the community brainwashes new players with. ex: (Don’t play shitshooter you won’t get into parties and you can’t clear content. you’ll never be mvp)
Band wagons on classes, exploited prices, accessories not existing at all because so much community hate for the class. I know too many people who quit simply because they can’t play their class. they can’t get accessories due to no market for the class. Then all the negatives come once that happens. Can’t get into pugs, can’t join a group because they don’t look so good due to no accessories, forced to buy carries which isn’t even playing the game.
Most of you people are actually toxic and not even good. Welp i’m done with my rant, I play berserker and don’t really deal with any of these problems but it really sucks seeing people struggle with this game, on issues that shouldn’t exist but do because of a toxic community.
As in life, when you ask for help, some people will be helpful, some people won’t be willing to help, and some people won’t be able to help you in the way you seek.
Other than that, highly recommend joining a guild that is a good fit for those new players.
You can play whatever you like how you like of course.
You can go budget build all you want sure.
That doesn’t mean someone is required to take you to their group.
Player A is 5x3 with correct stats
Player B is 3x3 with mixed stats.
Who are you taking to your group?
It’s not about being elitist, it’s about weeding out who takes the time into putting together everything correctly. I’ve helped a few newer players with suggestions. I gave them the answers that would allow them to get accepted into parties and clear content no matter what their class was. Would you rather I just tell them incorrect information so they feel good?
As the above, budget builds are possible, for instance:
Ignoring pheons, 1.2k gold for control glavier (swiftness) with
lvl 3 grudge
lvl 3 ambush master
lvl 3 cursed doll
lvl 2 adrenaline
lvl 1 control
lvl 1 crisis evasion
It’ll raise an eyebrow but your output is good enough. Prices are based on a week ago. Just got to mix and match less popular combinations, equip most expensive engravings (i.e. grudge), and as you see here, class accessories were too expensive.
Mixed stats is crazy. I don’t agree with budget being mixed stats. When I say budget I mean putting together a build that works, does great damage, not max damage and is highly functional.
For example I run a full swiftness sharpshooter, LC, Raid Captain, Hit Master, KBW, Cursed Doll. It’s a budget buiild, Full swiftness, Crit Tripods, hallucination 4 piece, nightmare 2 piece. I actually MVP all the time with this build, and I play with a group of people who all only meta build. Even in pugs I still mvp.
I’m 1462.5 I’ve out damaged plenty of people who are 1475+. Is the build perfect? Nah but is it highly functional? yes, that’s what i’m talking about. I bought a 5/3 KBW HM 90 Quality Swiftness Earring with -AS Speed 1 for 300 Gold. Raid captain at the time I built this was 2k per leg book. LC was 2k per leg as well.
I get in parties and most people ask me how does the build feel and after they see it they then say they want to try it. The game honestly should not be capped around insane priced meta builds.
I had a pinnacle glavier and switched the to control swiftness side and I LOVE IT. TBH full swiftness feels good on almost any class if done correctly. When the director stated that he wanted the game to be experience with legion raids I don’t think he meant the raids themselves but the builds and expression that comes with it. Makes the game feel so much better. I recently made a second berserker but I have none of the same classes and I love theory crafting some shit up.
I sometimes scroll far down LOA’s list to look at builds that aren’t made by the people who obviously are spending insane amounts of money on the game. Some of those people deserved to be reviewed than alot of the people who are shown. Super creative people are overlooked.
I think the problem is, these “build guides” are like a bible for many players.
And if you don’t follow it word by word, skill by skill and engraving by engraving, you are considered a heretic
Even if the build is good, even if it deals 90%, 99% or even more than the damage of a “meta build” in the right situations, these people won’t accept you in their parties (like some off meta builds, ex Broken Bone)
Same with budget builds or creative builds, if people don’t know them, they will hate on it and tell you to follow the meta build
By not having those newer players go and look at streamers and other influencers who play the game as their job who aren’t just 0.01% of the playerbase, but 0.01% of the elite playerbase. You can never watch hardcore players do their thing while making their concrete achievements and grind mindset a goal of yours, while trying to still stay casual in all aspects of actual gameplay
This is what messes you up, as the idea of a “casual hardcore player” doesn’t exist in the real world and trying to fit in this category will just end up making yourself mad and salty in the long run. It’s been like this for the last decades and there hasn’t been a change regarding this. Nowadays it’s just easier to follow hardcore players through all kinds of social media
Ive ran multiple off meta builds on alts and no one has ever said a thing to me. My alts i care less about i dont even full gear out with relic, and go 2 legendary pieces for class engravings. No one has ever said a single thing to me about being a little off meta. I think youre complaining is far from what is actually happening. People only complain when people are running insane stuff that doesnt even make sense, or does no dmg. Like previous people said, people making groups are allowed to take anyone they want, youre not entitled to be in anyones group just because you want to. If you dont wanna have someone vet ur character make ur own group. But regardless, people dont ever say anyhting when people are running off meta builds, i know multiple people who just dont wanna run grudge cause of the increased dmg received, not a single one of them has had any trouble of backlash cause of it, and obviously we all know grudge is the most meta thing when it comes to builds.
I think one or two people making a bad comment about something doesn’t make it the mentality of the entire community. I look to peoples engravings every raid i put together, but never would i not take someone just cause they arnt meta, But i will exclude somoene who doesnt even work towards putting a real build together, like people who are close to 1500 running leggo accoessies, not thanks, ill take the 1460 full relic with 4 engravings
oh yeah the “meta” slav…cough cough “es” that’s actually true! if you don’t follow the MeTa then you’re not doing it right. the typical Pepega players mentality.
You’re right in identifying this, it doesnt help new players when you essentially tell them they aren’t allowed to play with “you” (veterans) because they don’t overgear things or meet community reqs. That being said this response is most likely backlash from the slew of newbie sentiments early on which persisted and blatantly ignored veteran advice to then later call for unnecessary nerfs and complain.
So some of this is indeed toxic behavior by veterans which essentially tell newbies or less hardcore players to either pay up or eat shit, there’s no way to sugar coat it, you’re in denial if you do not see it. That being said most of these things aren’t the fault of “elitist” veterans for as much flack as they do deserve. New players fall prey to bandwagons more than anyone and to make matters worse they try to reinvent the wheel. They hop on the FOTM because it’s “cool” then build sub optimally and become deadweight, sometimes they even flock the forums and complain about a class thats OP, but to them it’s not because they wanted to intentionally do what they wanted, not play the class properly. I had several new players in my guild fit this bill to the tee, it took a lot of blunt conversations to get them to 180 and actually improve.
The market is primarily the fault of bots unfortunately, nothing we can do about that, this mostly falls on people who choose to 3rd party RMT and the methods Smilegate/AGS took to mitigate such cheating. It was incredibly lax early on and this is the consequence. Obviously this becomes a toxic snowball because now players will find it incredibly hard to gear properly I agree 100%. I think what we can do to alleviate this is be honest with new players so they aren’t willfully ignorant. It’s ok to be Off-Meta if it makes sense to be. It’s not ok to be “off-0Meta” merely because it feels/looks cool and you wanna experiment. At the very least encourage research and if a deviation is intended let it be an intelligent one, sometimes it’s better to play a different class that suits a “playstyle” then to force a playstyle on a class that doesn’t fit the mold, a common mistake newbies make.
After that, the only other real thing that can be done is challenge those players to host thier own lobbies and accept players on a first come first serve basis, or players who they think should have a legitimate shot in thier party. If they aren’t hypocrites they’ll invite players at ilvl, at spec and try the raid. The more people do this, the more casual friendly the game will be. Unfortunately I don’t think vets have a need or want to lower standards, but they do not have to lower standards for newbies to clear or enjoy content. Newbies just need to see lobbies for newbies made by newbies. Other vets can lend thier time or take a chance if they feel the need to do so but again not likely I’ve come to find the more I tend to have this conversation.
I seriously believe some players automatically become “pro”, “knowledgeable” or “expert” when they read stuff online or follow Twitch streamers. Then you add the fact that this game can be whaled… well we got some very outrageous opinions.
I was heavily criticized by someone here about my Shadowhunter build that has almost half with higher crit 1167 and spec 897. I was told I was losing 200x - 400x efficiency. I was also told I will get outdps by a new player who just got a Shadowhunter with a 3/3. I’m 4/3. For anyone with a slight familiarity with math, that doesn’t add up but since I’m breaking away from the meta. “It must be that bad”. Fearmongering to a new whole level.
I think it is part of a social construct. Some people shunned others when they break away from what is the norm. If you getting constantly fed through Twitch and "guides’ from click bait websites… brainwashing is crazy.
Now I’m not against Metas. Mathematically it is the likely outcome for everyone. It increases potential with a big but. I remember the time when players were spamming 4x3 is required for Argos. 1370 4x3 What? This is an MMO you build towards the meta.
There is only one explanation for why players constantly claim it is a requirement. They are whaling, that is why they always “stay” with the meta.
This picture shows the sad state of this game’s community:
The context here is there’s a youtube guide for mayhem zerks, this guy is asking how to make his berserker not get 1 shot. Instead of telling him to drop grudge and use a defense card set, the guide author tells him to play a completely different build which by the way… is at least 6+% less damage than the mayhem build.
The problem with lost ark community isn’t just elitist or gatekeeping. The real problem is that these same people are also kind of braindead.
And this stuff is everywhere. I wrote a thread over at “Grudge is overrated”… someone actually tried to backseat game my demon roar title by telling me to use LoS6 in helltan… (first: LoS6 is useless, second: you can’t even use card sets in hellmode). This shit is so cringe.
Meta builds are like vehicles with the best technical specs. But those people (“No meta, U BAD!111”) completely disregard the drivers skills and believe if they sit in the best car, they automatically become the best racer. When in fact, they probably don’t even have a proper license - like not knowing the full tool kit the class has, spamming abilities on cooldown etc…
That is why you see some people with 3/3 out dps-ing others with 4/3, but in my opinion this has nothing to do with the character build but the players skills. If someone is constantly running around, trying to dodge and eventually end up floor POVing, then it doesn’t matter if he is playing a meta build or not.
Luckily I have a decent static group and a guild, so I’m not seeing those types of people often, but occasionally I do in alt runs; complaining about lack of DPS after one wipe and pointing their fingers to the one with the lowest item level and less engravings, even when they were the first ones to die. Weak mentality and toxic
yeah id have to agree with some of your points. today i tried getting into a party for vykas with my alt Blade at 1465 correct stats 4x3 +1 6 pc relic full lvl 7 gems constantly denied because i dont overgear the content by an insane amount. my main (1507) with 5x3 always insta invite. funny part is my DB finally gets a party and i get mvp on g1 and g3, g2 sucked but still managed to get fighter. moral is NA is gonna gatekeep this game to death even argos runs arent letting people in who arent 1445-1500 its actually insane
The game does not even require 5x3 in NA yet. It does not require grudge. It does not require being 20+ilvls above content to complete. But you do need to have all those things so people will play with you. Everything you do is so you can get parties to complete content. Thats Lost Arks biggest problem.
I play a lot of sorcs and know a lot of “unknown” build that do perform and are usually on the cheaper side. (Casting Reflux, Classless sorc, Swift Igniter, etc…) But these are legit build that may have lower damage ceiling in Trixion parses, but still perform competitively with meta-build (or should I say “Trixion-build”). Yet I have seen people trash talking my Classless sorc (even tho it is totally capable of doing Hard Vykas as a 4-man bus-run, I do it every week with 1475 item lvl)., calling it “chaos build” etc… and usually they have no idea of what they’re talking about.
Now it all depends on what you call a Budget build. My Classless sorc is 5x3 with 80+ quality on accessory, lvl5 tripods and (bonus) main’s gems. I do damage, much more damage (twice more…) than most of the 4x3 legendary people I meet.
If you think it’s ok to have 4x3 with legendary accessory with a 1445+ alt, you are wrong. That’s not “budget”, that’s cheaping out and waiting to get carry.
If you don’t mind that it takes you 2h every week to clear Vykas Hard, because you only manage to fill parties with 4x3 legendary and you get rekt by mechanics such as Medusa, Blood Rain that only really pop when your damage is on the lower side, or just because you guys get rekt by G2 Vykas because you can’t survive 10mn in it and that’s exactly how long it takes you to clear that encounter if your party is filled with legendary accessory enjoyers, THEN great no-one force you to upgrade your character. Just don’t complain that people will decline you, because people don’t want to spend 2h per Vykas Hard run, especially when they have multiple to do every weeks.
Everyone is free to play how they want. It seems like the majority of the people prefer to have it easy, and will decline/gatekeep/clown you if you refuse to enhance your character to a proper power level (basically keeping Legendary accessory when you have access to relic) and it’s totally fine. You are as well free to create your own party and to invit who you want.
TLDR : Building a budget setup and cheaping are 2 different things.
Building a Budget setup you are either going for 5x3 with cheaper engravings and try to make it work by building setup that do work with these (for example Pistoleer and FS-Sorc can use Precise Dagger and it’s a 16% dmg engraving) OR you go for 33331 or 33332 with full Relic, eventually tweaking your gear set like going Hallucination insteed of Salvation if you have Adrenaline at lvl1 but usually needs it lvl3. That’s Budget builds.
Cheaping out is litterally not enhancing your characters to a proper level. If you go into Vykas normal with a +11 weapon, that’s cheaping out. If you’re 1445+ and still wear legendary accessory, that’s cheaping out. Not building Beast Power set on 1430 alts, because it cost gold to craft it, that’s cheaping out. Enhancing your characters up to 1460 but not buying gems and going into Vykas with Blue gems, that’s cheaping out.
PS : Yes building a character is expansive, but so is honing !! Some people are just honing, honing, honing and get all 6 character to 1445+ but none of theim are decently geared. And yes, we are clowning you because we don’t want Argos-tier gear in our Vykas runs. Insteed of honing 6 character to 1445, maybe these people could have only hone 3 but building theim properly for legion raids insteed …
