No you don’t. You don’t own them. You own a license to use them.
Not a US law expert. But where I’m from you don’t contract out of laws protecting consumers.
Terms might say one thing, but if it’s against the law it’s against the law.
Like a shop might say no refunds, but if they’ve mislead you or product faulty, you can get refund regardless.
3 Likes
@Iamawall, if you are unsure of the answers to your questions then I suggest you do a little more research.
If you feel so strongly about an issue then by all means take any steps you feel are justified.
There is even a user in this thread that has offered their professional assistance with this issue and if you happen to have a lazy $25,000 plus an hourly rate then by all means.
Yep, state law rules all in the US (well, almost all). My state says that gift card never expire. Good luck selling one that you don’t want to honor 20 years from now. You’ll be in hot water.
It’s not my problem, it’s the OP’s problem, and simply reporting an illegal practice (depending on your state) is free.
Yea that gift card thing is just weird. All the businesses do that here too, put expiry on it. But soon as you point to relevant legislation they all cave in first 10 seconds.
It’s like they do it just to see how many they can catch unaware.
Haven’t read anything so it could be mentioned; one of the big points is that you could just switch the server and don’t have queue times. And yes, I know of anything that is related to your progress and so on. But trying to sue someone for a long queue time because you can’t access the game as you think you can is just worth a big laugh 
Change server and the problem is solved. Because it is a fact that not all servers (not even close) have queue times. Only those servers/regions where enough RMT buyers are have queue times cause only there are more bots than on other servers/regions.
You could argue why allow so many accounts on a server to the point people can not log in for hours.
Another is that there isn’t a capacity limit for servers, Amazon just doesn’t let anymore people beyond a certain point to log in. In theory it is a denial of service.
I wouldn’t care enough to take legal action, would just go find something better to play, but some people are nutty.
You could but players where complaining that they could not create characters on the server their friends are so they did it after a while. This would then lead to way more people complaining cause they can’t do that then now that there are queue times.
Wrong because Amazon has nothing to do with it. The servers Amazon is using are more than capable of doing it BUT the game/login mechanics and so on are not programmed to keep up to such a demand. This is something Smilegate needs to do, and I think are doing, but can’t be realized in such a short period of time.
And as long as it is only a “could” “should” or “would” it is pure speculation and no facts. Amazon AND Smilegate are not responsible for players/bots that keep trying to log in so that queue times occur.
They are responsible for the bots which is something they are fighting against since Day1 of them existing.
I don’t want to defend someone or something in that regard. But to sue someone because of the reasons written here is just ridiculous.
I don’t think you are correct, we went from having zero queues to 10k+ queues with the same active player numbers and it went back and forth and Amazon said they were limiting how many people could log on at the same time.
It had nothing to do with capacity or Smilegate limitations, they artificially limited the number of users and it hit all servers. There was probably a good reason for it, but it is a denial of service. We had way more accounts and active number of users and they restricted access to the service later on.
But we have had numerous people leave the game, numerous bots banned, yet we still have way more active users than they allow on the servers, and it isn’t a capacity, issue, it is a choice. They could just put a hard lock on new accounts and let people move their characters from a congested server to a less congested one.
None of this is the customer’s fault. In FFXIV if your cluster is congested you can move to a different one that is less congested, it is not like they have your character nailed to a server, they could easily allow people to move servers if they want to spread out the load.
I think consumers have legitimate gripes. But why bother, why keep giving them your time and money if you are that bent. LA is a good game, not worth it if you are raging and want to sue.
1 Like
This doesn’t change the fact of login Servers not capable of handling the simultaneous login attempt’s that occur since bots changed from infinity chaos runs to a massive amount of bots to counter the “loss” of materials.
Yes Amazon “can change” the amount of logins possible. But this isn’t disabling or making it irrelevant that the login Servers (due to the structure of the game made by SG which th y explained and stat d) can’t handle to many login’s. This is and will be a problem caused by the way the game was/is made.
And until this is not changed/or let’s say fixed if you like that more, nothing can change.
And as I said, blaming Amazon for something th y can’t change is
1 - just ridiculous
2 - just something that was thought of because misinformation
And 3 - like saying “Hey, I want my money back because to many people are playing the same F2P MMO I want to play” which should be self explanatory 
And the bot war is going on so also nothing you could sue them.
And in addition the simple fact that it is spoken about a law suit. And this is under the circumstances that are present just something to laugh about if you (which should be clear) consider the ToS etc.
They can’t because Lost Ark is not constructed like that
And only cause it works in FF do s not mean it could work everywhere. If the server and game architecture is not allowing it than you can’t “just do it”
It is either Amazon “fault” that the game is not made like that nor that “to many people” try to login. Nothing is even remotely near a law suit or anything in that regard.
The only thing you could argue (but still FAR away from something a legal action would be useful) are the bots and that is something they are fighting against and this is something they have and could prove.
[quote=“Doc.MM, post:49, topic:408140, full:true”]
I’m not a lawyer but McDonalds got sued because their coffee was hot so I don’t really know what is in the realm of possibility in America.
I think the slippery slope was we had a status quo in what was it, March or April and not sure the reason why but they reduced the amount of people that could log in at the same time without any notice and without any option to move server so you had a lot more people trying to squeeze into what were some already overcrowded servers with a much reduced concurrent player capacity.
They could have prevented new characters being created on the congested servers (they did it not long after launch), so as people left the game it reduced the total number of active accounts logging in and they could have placed a limit on the how many new character/accounts could exist on a server and as player numbers moved down opened them and closed them again when they started running into queues.
They aren’t even trying to manage the problem, there is no point banning a thousand bot accounts if you let another thousands be created, you are just slowing down the process of them creating gold, not reducing their load on the server.
If they put a pause on character creation on the congested servers and they are actively banning bots, the bots wouldn’t be able to come back here. It wouldn’t penalise players.
They need some sort of authentication process like KR does.
1 Like
Won’t say that you are wrong cause I don’t know why they don’t do it.
What I know that they ARE doing something and that they ARE banning manually etc. Won’t say it is enough cause it isn’t but I clearly have the standpoint of “take your time even if it means it gets worth, if the solution is a more efficient/permanent one”-people.
Also the way they did it in KR is impossible for NA/EU because they have their private phone connected to their ID. This is used for authentication. Wouldn’t be possible/is not possible (due to law restrictions) in our countries.
lol
TLDR: I am a US lawyer and they can be subject to a class action lawsuit.
Boilerplate, non-negotiable TOS doesn’t always protect you from fraud or failure to provide services as well as fulfilling reasonable expectations, especially where money is exchanged. People have reasonable expectations of short or instantaneous log in times based on other MMORPG experiences and also current technology. Amazon is one of the wealthiest companies in the world and arguably one of the most tech savvy. As such, there is no reasonable excuse for their queues going 1 to 2 plus hours long.
Everything is case by case - so a class action attorney would have to research this and have a plaintiff willing to be the class rep. There are many people who purchased Crystalline Aura services who may be ideal class plaintiffs. Also lawsuits aren’t just about prevailing. Most class actions, if they make it to class certification, end up settling for many different reasons. See the recent Facebook class action settlement and that is a free service as well (meaning no money changed hands) yet they paid users hundreds of dollars. I am sure lawyers are looking into this and it’s because these are deep pocket and high profile defendants that they would be interested. Oh and legal fees are paid by the defendant and the class action lawyer does it on contingency (meaning no legal fees to the plaintiff). Always seek the advice of an actual attorney before you jump to any conclusions. The OP is correct in his thoughts.
But is American law able to sue Amazon for something they are not even responsible for as publisher? Because the problems OP describes are nothing Amazon can change cause it is still code based problems and architecture problems that SG needs to fix/can only be fixed by.
So it is nothing of “inform yourself before speaking”-case cause it is simply a “you can’t blame Microsoft if your AMD CPU has a failure”- type of thing (even if the comparison is lacking).
So if you, as a professional in this case, tell me that American law is able to do so then I apologize for not knowing how ridiculous law can be
If it is like everywhere else in the world where you can’t sue someone for something he has
1 - not “made”
2 - is not responsible for
3 - can’t change anything about it
Then I will still say that a legal action is not possible in this case.
So TLDR: I was not jumping to any conclusion, I was just taking the law as it is (in my case Germany) that tells me that you can’t do things like that cause it is just plainly not possible.
And in addition many people in many threads (that also said they are lawyer in America) said that the way KR do their 2FA would not be possible due to law and I know that in Germany you couldn’t do that either. So again nothing like “don’t jump to conclusions”-type of situation cause this is what is covered by law. And even if only in Germany it would be enough so they could not do it.
This is true, the thing is those laws you can’t contract yourself out of is very specific and narrow. A lot of things people THINK are US consumer laws are either standard practices, or laws of other countries, like the EU or Aus.
For example, there’s very few reasons you can actually get a refund in the US, especially for a digital good, from a legal perspective. A lot of companies give generous refunds as a show of good will but their actual legal obligation is much narrower. People assume those are legal requirements, but they actually aren’t often so, they’re good faith gestures.
ok, since this post has been there for a while, so when the hearing starts?!
You clearly aren’t a lawyer.
For there to be a class action everyone has to have suffered equally, yet some servers have queues while others do not and people have spent hugely different amounts.
Imagine we are all walking down a bridge and it breaks. We all fall and some of us suffer from broken bones while others walk away unscared. #NotALawyer up above thinks that is grounds for a class action but it’s not as people have not suffered equally. It’s so obvious, why would I get a 50th of the award when all I got was a bruised knee when some other guy is paralyzed?