The game offers you various choices to make in customizing the way you play. Yet everyone just follows the retarded guide of “No Grudge no dps”. And now we have a bunch of scrubs that literally can’t survive in Valtan without Supports babysitting them.
Pretty much everything in the game so far does not require you to all-in damage boost engraves. Even Valtan at last phase is clearable with no DPS as long as you can do the mech properly and survive whilst waiting for the meter to fill up.
Stop with the bullshits of “but mech 1shots you” too. I’ve seen enough of Grudge users dying and I can confidently say that using that piece of garbage makes you wipe the floor much more often with the boss’s normal attack pattern. And if you have Cursed Doll on top of that then not even Supports can save you.
Freaking ridiculous. Why are people using Grudge and Cursed Doll while lying to themselves that it will be fine as long as they don’t get hit and then proceed to search for Supports?
Of course they would. Not everyone can play perfectly. Hence all the promotions of using Grudge seem ridiculous to me. That kind of combination should only be used when you are absolutely confident with playing the game.
20% damage is 20% damage, but people get used to standing in red with perma shields
you absolutely do not need supports to finish valtan
finding 8 players who use a keyboard and not a DDR dance mat to control their characters is all you need tbh
Wipe happen more often than not due to there’s not enough damage. Having grudge/cursed doll is actually a good thing. No amount of defensive is going to save you because the chances of valtan becoming enrage goes up at the end.
The longer you spend fighting in Valtan, the more skills he will perform, hence without proper dps engraving people will just use up all their HP potion and end up dying.
It’s not the engraving, there’s no “pro” or top skilled about it. Everyone is required to learn when to not do damage and when it is proper to do damage. This is the whole point of Valtan - a raid meant to teach people how to properly play.
Well, without grudge you won’t get to any good party, also grudge/cursed doll is the only thing you can add as dps on 4th/5th engraving. Supports not only makes you live longer but also increases dps of all party therefore it’s better to always have a support to make clears faster.
Have to agree we just did valtan second week without support yes we wiped like 5 times.After hearing all this bullshit from korean players “west wants to do legions without support? hahah” well gues what lol
Huh? My point was that there are 3 years of data that proves that there is an optimal way to built. I never said we had to be koreans what are you smoking man?
Koreans use Grudge and Cursed Doll to gatekeep new players out of public groups because it’s like sign that they didn’t put enough money/effort into their characters. Just like card set, you don’t actually need it to clear the raid.
Wipe happen more often than not due to there’s not enough damage. Having grudge/cursed doll is actually a good thing. No amount of defensive is going to save you because the chances of valtan becoming enrage goes up at the end.
When you reach ghost phase the timer is reset anyway. So whether enrage happen or not depends on the amount of people staying alive throughout the fight.
The longer you spend fighting in Valtan, the more skills he will perform, hence without proper dps engraving people will just use up all their HP potion and end up dying.
Using either Grudge or Cursed Doll makes this point go both way. People are either taking more damage than they should or heal for less with those engraves so it’s moot.
I think you are both wrong and correct.
Yes, there exist people who made builds they are not ready for, and thus require handholding.
But saying raiding does not require support is a statement I think is a little disingenuous, and I do not think you did it on purpose.
Raiding does not require supports is the same as saying raiding does not require sorceress.
It is correct, you can complete the whole content without a sorceress, and you can complete it without a bard or paladin on your team.
But is that optimal? Do you want to if you had any choice when making your group?
The answer is no. Supports doing their role correctly makes everything easier for everyone involved.
There is a good reason why they love having supports in groups in KR. They more than make up for lack of damage, and actually increase it in good groups that take advantage of synergies, and it makes for less consumables and they can save the raid from otherwise certain death.
Can we talk for a second not about the Defense provided by supports but the DPS gains made via (i) consistent DPS buff (see Heavenly Tune on Bard, don’t play Pally but they have one too) 15% flat increase + 6% increase to your attack power; (ii) the +10% increased damage on bosses (see Note Brand on a variety of Bard skills); and (iii) Serenade of Courage which gives 15% damage?
To me, that is what makes a support worthwhile. And as someone who has a Valtan Bard, I can tell you, I absolutely effing hate healing and the heal pools. Need HP? Use a pot. Ran out of pots? Stop taking unnecessary damage.
IMO, the role of a support should be to make the DPS hit even harder, not shield and heal them. And in fact, IIRC, in Hell Mode and beyond Bards don’t ever drop the healing well because the DPS checks are so tight.
So going back to what OP Said: Die alot? Your fault. Run out of HP pots in the middle of a raid? Also your fault. My job is to make you go from hitting like a sedan to a semi-truck, not to babysit your ass because you think you can facetank shit.
EDIT: TLDR - My job as a support isn’t to make you use less battle items, to give you shields or to fix your mistakes because I am not a Healer. My job is to make your DPS skyrocket.
Yes, but to get there faster it’s always the better option - If you spend too much time in both phrases people will have higher chance to use up all their potions before actually getting to the finishing fight.
This wasn’t a problem in Argos because after each phrases in Argos you can re-supply. Valtan is basically 3 phrases condensed into one long fight. So in this perspective it’s better for people to bring their optimal dps setup so the whole team can get to the end phrase quicker. Bringing defensive engraving on a DPS at this point basically will just drag the entire party down, creating more situations where mistakes can happen.
I also see support as more of a damage buff and not there to “save” people. The more damage you do the easier it is to get pass Valtan since now at each HP breakpoints Valtan will perform a certain gimmick. So the entire point now is to get there faster.
Yeah I just don’t understand the mentality of blaming support or thinking support is there to heal and save people.
Whenever I see support buff damage - I instantly just stack it up with Adrophine potion to get an additional 30% damage. It feels really good to burn through the Valtan HP
