[Rant] Remember when games were supposed to be played for a long time?

With time they will, i cant imagine them holding a lot of things back. Dont forget korea was on t1-2 for a far longer time, while we started with t3 that probably changed the dynamic a lot and made it confusing

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Yeah, most KR games are of this nature so people dont have the incentive to play an egregious amount of hours in one sitting. The game is designed to to be played 90-120minutes at most a day.

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Yeah, i used to play Metin2 and Nostale. Those games were the real p2w ones.

Archage x) that was a painful one


People of culture. xD

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Yep. I am pretty sure most people that complain non stop about pretty much everything that takes time and commitment to complete aren’t very experienced with MMo’s in general.
If we actually made the comparison I think Lost Arc might be the least painful mmo there is… I personally am a big fan of the idea of being gated by time rather than effort. Like sitting in Lineage dungeon in the later levels and killing the same 3 mobs on repeat for 12 hours to get 5% exp.

I never ended a tier in wow without having all the gear I was looking for. However, I never got some of those mounts that have that low drop rate. In wow if you play the game you will be able to get the gear without buying gold or spending any more cash than your sub price. (Which you can also pay by playing the game) this feels different for some reason.

Remember when games were made with TLC and enjoyable and made you WANT to waste your time, instead of designed to waste your time?

They didn’t have MTX out the wazoo either. P2W? What’s that.

Also, the majority of people weren’t min/maxing speedrunners following guides for every little thing and seeking instant gratification and babyraging when they don’t get it.

The golden days are gone and dead and will never come back. And the atrocious MTX will never change until all the governments around the world heavily regulate the modern game industry’s monetization practices.

I used to enjoy gaming. Can’t say I really do anymore.

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The reason is how it is structured, which matters.

When people say “it’s all just RNG anyways” or something like that, without paying attention to how the RNG is served up and experienced by the player, it obscures more than it clarifies. It basically sidesteps the entire reason why this system is so much more irritating to most players – it’s in how the RNG is structured.

In WoW and similar Western-designed games (and FFXIV, which also follows a Western and not an Asian design in this respect), the basic design is that you work at something to get a reward, and if the reward drops, then you get the drop. If it doesn’t, you re-run the content, but it’s the content that you want to run – it’s the raid, the mythic dungeon, etc., that you want to run as the core of your content, it’s the part of the game that you find fun, and it either drops the reward or it doesn’t and if it doesn’t you run it again either right away, or next day, or, in weekly lockout days, next week. And that is generally supplanted by tokens or something like that to guarantee against “bad luck” so that you get at least 1-2 drops per week. In that way, a player can make a worst case guess at how many runs gearing will take in terms of days of play. It can be quicker with good luck, but worst case it will be X through tokens. And the key to it all is that the content is the actual core content that people want to run, generally. Running those instances over and over is why people play WoW, after all.

In this game, the basic structure is that you run daily content (which is not the core content you want to run, not what has drawn you to the game) to get materials that give you a chance at an upgrade. The actual content doesn’t feel rewarding in itself because it isn’t the content you want to run. And the honing itself doesn’t feel rewarding because it is more like a low chance lottery system. The entire thing feels very unrewarding – basically you run chore content to get some lottery tickets which then generally fail to give you an upgrade until you back into an upgrade due to the pity system. And then you do it for another level of upgrade, or for an upgrade on another piece. It is the opposite of exciting, fun or rewarding because it doesn’t involve the content you want to run, and the rewards feel very unconnected to the content, because they are ensconced in a deliberately designed casino-style slot machine simulator rather than coming as a drop from a boss kill – something that makes all the difference from the perspective of the experience as a player.

Yes, you can sit back and say, as if you were a computer or a bot yourself with no emotions or human perception, that it’s around the same RNG in the end (which it really isn’t, but anyway), but the key is that humans aren’t neutral in terms of how they will respond to things – how they will respond is directly related to how things are structured. The structure of the RNG here emulates directly a slot machine. The structure in a Western MMO emulates a drop of treasure from a monster. That structure makes the reward scheme, based on RNG, feel entirely different to the player, and that makes all the difference in the world in terms of the experience and explains why so many are so irritated by the system in this game (and other K-MMOs generally, where this has always been a massive stumbling block to their success in this market).

I’m not sure one system is objectively better than the other but after yesterdays fails I’m letting some rested bars build up while I calm down. It only took one piece of gear going to 100% chance to ruin the fun.

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Before people even think about saying, “yeah, well, WoW and FFXIV you don’t have to P2W to get gear so things are more balanced…” Have you ever thought about what happens those months you might not be able to afford membership or the people who can’t afford their membership some months? Or what if you or those people can’t afford that shiny new expansion when it comes out? Life happens. It is almost like those people who can afford their memberships/new expansions have an advantage over those who can’t.

Black Sash I think was called BSS.

You had to camp that m’fing frog in the basement who also dropped the dark elf disguise mask

The problem is people these days want instant gratification all of the time. Then the irony of this is if the game developers give in they will quickly say “I quit! there’s nothing to do!”

The vast majority of players now never had to camp leaping lizzy for 3 days only to finally get the voke claim over the 20 other players just to not have the boots drop. Or Valkurm emporer, or the monster signet boss, ect. (FFXI)

They never had to grind for an hour to make 1%, just to risk losing 5% if someone decided they wanted to murder them. (Lineage)

They never had to risk their entire kit of gear to farm blood elementals in Shame dungeon. Never had to worry about whether or not if they opened their houses front door someone might come in, kill them and start looting their house (UO).

They never had to farm bosses hundreds of times to get the right card to put in their accessories. (Ragnarok online)

Instead most of their earliest memories of MMOs are World of Warcraft where none of this happens. Its a joke.

You are incorrect.

Many mmos need you to clear X to do Y and some ppl are sp bad they cant clear X or have rng on bad groups to clear X.

Or they dont get drops needed from X so cant move to Y. Because drops are rng and ylu might lose a roll when it drops.

Like ppl forget or make up there own rules for games cause they mad

My issue isn’t the honing rates, because like people are saying it’s somewhat analogous to farming for a rare drop.

Where lost ark feels bad is on two accounts:

  1. There actually isn’t a lot you can do. I could play Ragnarok and farm for a card literally all day. In Lost Ark I get two chaos dungeons, then I have to hop alts like some kind of transdimensional fugitive body snatcher.
  2. In other games I can “cheat” around rarity. No luck with that card in Ragnarok? Farm something else, sell it, and buy the card with the money. The equivalent in this game would be buying “100%” of a honing chance, which equates to like 30 times the material cost plus a full set of honing chance boosters. Not exactly realistic amounts of money. Especially because you’re limited on how much you can actually farm (see #1).
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No, I remember when capitalistic game companies came up with the idea to string you along FOREVER trying to reach the end of their “infinite” game, charging you a monthly fee the ENTIRE TIME. (Yes, this pre-dated Free to play, and Buy to play).

This is Pavlov’s Dog. You see “MMORPG” and you think “Must… have… infinite… grind…” because that’s what you’ve been trained to think.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a video game which provides a few months of enjoyment before you move on to another video game.

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Haha, this one got me good.
That happens once to a person then they learn to macro that ban command quick.

All those older MMOs taught you the hard way. Don’t go outside in full GM crafted Valorite armor in UO. You will get mugged and fast. I remember I had a set and would only wear it with guild runs because it cost much as a house.

EQ did that too. Open the wrong door. REEE incoming NPC nukes. Dead.

Harsh as they were those types of systems are what prompted players to work together beyond just getting gear. It was good to have a Cleric buddy to Rez you so you don’t lose 4 hours of Exp. It was good to have a guild to run with so you didn’t get mugged farming.

Now days MMOs are all about loot and it treats each player as a placeholder to get it.
Most of them might as well be single player. The whole point is to interact with a living world.
Those awful grinds didn’t suck as much because you were chatting it up and screwing around.

A lot of contracts can be broken abruptly if given enough “incentive” to do so. There are definitely some safety nets for both the publisher and the owner of the IP to withdraw from the contract even before expiration if X happens. Like if Amazon ruins the reputation of the IP to the point that they breach the contract by that.