Scrapper: Cursed Doll vs Increased Mass

My brother decided to pick up the game as I leave it, and he started to play Scrapper. Of course, I tried to give him some beginner advice, and one of them was to look at engravings beforehand so we can decide together what to go for in the best case.

We settled on full swift Taijutsu. Now here’s the thing. I recommended to go for 3x3+1 at first (Taijutsu, Raid Captain, Ambush Master, Adrenaline), then add Grudge as a 4th engraving once he gets to that point. But as we all know there is also 5x3. And for that, I would usually say Cursed Doll, but… this gave me the thought of why not Increased Mass?

The difference in attack power is barely anything, and in my opinion going with full swift cancels out the reduced attack speed well enough. So my question in his name is:

What do you think? Is IM worth being the 5th engraving in this specific case or does CD win out overall?

Saintone mentioned a while back that Mass Increase is really really bad for most of classes. But it’s really really good for those that can offset the downside of the engraving. I use Mass Increase but that’s also because my swiftness is high that I do not notice any penalty from it.

I’m not sure why you even have to decide between CD vs MA. Neither are used for 5x3 swift tai scrapper. The build is Grudge, Tai, Raid Captain, Ambush Master, Adrenaline. Aim for 70/30 swift, which is usually achievable with crit on necklace that’s decent quality.

Also go for 4x3 from the get go. It can last a while and a lot less likely to get you gatekept when pugging lower difficulty legion raids than 3x3+1.

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Mass increase is 2% more attack power then cursed doll so accualy better then cursed doll if you can offset the penalty witch high swift builds can… and way cheaper so mass increase is often picked over cursed doll in swift classes becuse well its better and cheaper and no healing penalty…

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He’s tai scrapper he uses neither of those anyways lol. Both kinda bad.

He should be lvl3 adren(I think hes at 1 right now) if he going 5x3 and getting grudge to finish off.

Now if he ever gets lucky and get a 9/7 stone and we got ancient acc thats when he drops adren down to lvl 2 and get lvl 3 either mass or CD. CD is better because the 10% swift could be the difference of landing 1 more skill before the boss moves.

What are you talking about ? Of course he can use either cursed or mass increase. Tai 3, adren 3, grudge 3, mass increase 3, ambush 3… that is accualy the best setup for swift tai scrapper

Neither bro… should be Taijutsu, Grudge, Raid Captain, Ambush Master, Adrenaline

You could swap out adrenaline if in static groups with crit buff…just by the way.

Here is my recomendation tai 3 not optional, ambush master 3 not realy optional either, adrenaline also set… grudge or raid captain pick one depending on price, mass increase or cursed doll pick depending on price… i would go tai 3, grudge 3, adren 3, ambush 3, mass increase 3… and with ancients and 7/7 stone drop adren to 1 and ad raid captain

You do realise raid captain is less dmg then mass increase if you are already running grudge right? And more expensive

if he full swift then raid captain will be better he gets around 17% damage increase because he will have nearly max swift with yearning from support.

Mass increase will likely only give around 14% damage increase because he already has attack power increase from adren and attack power is addative.

Soo lets say he has 3000 attack power as his baseline , adrenaline 3 gives 6% attack power and mass increase gives 18% so the math would be this

3000+(3000 x. 06)+(3000 x .18)= 3720

With adrenaline + raid captain(assuming he gets 17% from raid captain) it would be
3000+(3000 x .06) = 3180 = base+adren
3180+(3180 x .17) = 3720.6 = (base+adren) x Raid Captain

So notice how you’re gonna do lower numbers with mass increase compared to raid captain without even including the 10% attack speed.

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Well I play crit heavy tai scrapper…We dont use raid. But raid seems viable on a swiftness build.

I have an alt full swift tai, and I feel the general 5x3 which is what I run is Tai/Grudge/Ambush/Arden/Raid. You can switch out Raid Captain for Cursed/MI if you wanted since you need a sup to get max use out of Raid Captain. The only next step is 9/7 to switch out Adren for which ever you chose not to get (either CD/MI or raid captain) and set adren level 1

Sure… xD That’s why everyone’s running Raid Captain if they are on cap, unlucky builds I guess

This has been my exact thought process Thank you.

MI is not something you put on a class that should be like 30% crit. It only works on full swift classes

Now do the same with raid and grudge since they are both dmg increase and also adren dont make im give only 14% more like 17… but anyway same rule aply to raid and grudge

Don’t know what kind of math you did there and I’m too lazy to check, but if you want to check how much damage mass increase gives when paired with adrenaline just do 1.24/1.06=1.1698

Raid Captain and grudge are not additive… they are multiplicative.

While Adrenaline and MI are additive and suffer from diminishing return due to how the dmg is calculated. Thus why is never recommended to stack multiple additive engraving. However due to limited of usable dmg engraving some class do just stack them cause their no alternative. Also a big reason if you have build in crit dmg , generally you don’t want to take Kent blunt.

You have a misunderstanding on what are multiplicative engraving and additive engraving and how they work.

As a Scrapper OTP I can guarantee you that you don’t run either until Ancient Acessories.
The upcoming patch will grant us even more CRC which will greatly benefit in consistency.
With Brel Hard and Ancient accessories we have option to drop out Adre 3 to Adre 1 and add one more ATK increase since KBW in general isn’t as good ( esspecially not for uptime classes that have lower CRC ).
Personally I dislike both CD and MI due to drawbacks of both but I’d hate losing extra AS more than extra heal.
While on progging MI would be better most likely, as you understand the raid content you don’t get hit that often and even when you do, as Scrappers are tanky as hell, you won’t really feel CD effects.

Whilst it is prefference, I personally believe you’d benefit more from CD than MI since Battering Fist, Death Rattle have relatively long animations and losing the full hit because of MI isn’t worth.