Should I buy Raid Captain? Perfect suppression?

I wanna do PS build
I was thinking about:

Perfect suppression +12
Raid Captain +12
Ambush master

Stone 7/7 Grudge - Ambush master ?

Should I buy RC now insted of grudge?

(i know i can do class engraving at lvl 1)

Depends ifnu want to go cheap or expensive. Crit or swiftness build. For cheap swiftness build i wouldnt go grudge at all since it is not needed. You can go PS, Mass increase, Raid captain, Ambush and Adrenaline.

If u want to go expensive way and maximize damage then Grudge, Mass increase, Raid captain, Ambush + 1xPS and 2xAdrenaline.

For crit builds i would just swap mass increase with kbw.

Probably best would be to buy Grudge + Ambush/Raid captain in case of expensive build. Not sure if your alts would utilize ambush or raid captain more.


I wanna go around 600-700 crit and 1300+ swiftness

Adr on stone, ambush on acc. Your 5x3 is good, you don’t need mass increase attack speed penalty. If you’re going adrenaline 3 a crit ring is enough.

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Test the engraving combinations and stats on trixion before you commit.

Mass increase is underrated engraving on high swiftness shadowhunters. Indeed mass increase has penalty of reduced attack speed but thats what supports should do and rage rune.

If youre going with 600 to 700 crit AND Adrenaline you should seriously test/consider kbw. PS can be built so many different ways, loawa rankings can help you gauge what higher levels with similar stat builds are building.

PS has to be one of the most flexible dps builds in the game (pretty large variance in stat weight, engravings, and even gear sets all remaining viable)

As opposed to the other poster however, i dont think theres a single instance where “grudge is not your best option”

Entropy 2 makes it worse then raid captain, which is a full 18% damage bonus. In fact even if he goes 800 crit and has a 10% party synergy, kbw is worse then even cursed doll.

You need 75+ crit rate for kbw to match cursed doll + adr, 85+ to match cursed doll and you’ll never reach raid captain even with 100 crit rate. With entropy 2

Maybe. It’s just that missing one demolition during an entire fight because of that attack speed penalty and it is less damage then cursed doll.
Mass increase is overrated unless you go over 45% attack speed. And you don’t. Rage rune is too unreliable

The biggest benefit of buying non-class legendary books, as opposed to putting those engravings on jewelry/stones, is that they’re usable across your entire roster. Grudge is generally a better investment than Raid Captain in that sense, because every DPS class can benefit from the +12 Grudge, whereas a relatively small number of classes/builds can optimize around Raid Captain.

If you play or plan to play several characters who all use Raid Captain, though, that is definitely a cheaper short-term option.

Mass Increase is actually more damage, you can test this yourself in trixion. All you need is legendary galewind on demolition.

grudge 12 (book)
RaidCap 12 (book)
PS lvl 1

That’s the whole point. During an actual fight the lowered attack speed will cost you 1-2 or more skills and your dps will be lower then cursed doll. Trixion test is obviously 18%>16%

It’s really not a problem in fights either as the higher you go and the more experienced you are in the fights the more valuable higher burst damage becomes.

I’m not just saying this because mass increase is cheaper - I have both mass increase and cursed doll books maxed out and I choose to use mass increase over it since I’m confident in my ability to spot windows to land hits and I want to squeeze as much damage out my class as possible to get fat cruel fighter mvp’s like this:

Something interesting is the highest ranked perfect suppression player in KR (ranked #2 overall on SH loawa board) uses mass increase as well, although he is the exception and not the rule:리로이2

But I actually would not recommend building a PS character right now since the winter PTR balance patch is probably going to drop soon and PS is one of those builds that people are expecting to receive a rework.

Cheaper would be an argument. Besides that though 1.6% - 1.7% damage (depending on your adr level) for shortening your dps windows as a back attacker still doesn’t sound appealing. And it’s already a cheap class to build

Do take care about loawa being a ilvl ranking system only. Doesn’t mean skill or anything.

Third one might be possible, but it usually takes a while to reach us from KR so it’s hard to draw a conclusion

Besides that though 1.6% - 1.7% damage

That’s like half a weapons tap worth of damage, which is pretty significant to me. Demolition aside all your other skills are instant hit so it’s not even a problem. Just play better.


+25 weapon sorceress getting annihilator, SH doing 50% of damage…

MVP are something good to see when all people are alive, but here, the sorc is visibily dedge ._.

Also, something i say often to my friends when they take Loawa as example, it’s good, the ranking is without any doubt about people that know what they do, but it’s still about Ilvl, and not skill/dps/most optimised.

2nd SH (with Esther) for sure is more invested in the game, and get a better experience than the current 1st.

Even if that’s the case, and i really hope it is (about the rework), i would still recommand people to play Perfect depression, and understand why it’s called that.

Even if it’s pretty weak at the first look (currently just dealing 2M with all my encroachment skills), it’s pretty satisfying to play, and feel more like an assassin than anything in the current game (Reaper obviously destroying everything haha).
(I’m talking about the number that appear on screen when saying 2M)

Also, i’d like to remind that we don’t have all information about how the DPS is calculated.

There is something right now, on KR, people use more KBW than Cursed doll, even if on paper Cursed doll give them more damage, because when they try in Trixion, KBW gives more.

The annihilator title can really be misleading sometimes since it can override other titles, there have been raids where someone does 40%+ damage and end up with annihilator somehow. I know this because my friends cousins mother runs a dps meter.

I have out dps’d a lot of sorc’s though, many of them better equipped than me. I think it might be because I do pubs where the support isn’t in sync with their burst or maybe they don’t know the fights well enough to reliably land their skills or maybe just terrible crit luck lol.

With how expensive pheons and accessories are, I just don’t want anyone to get burned after building a full set. I would not be surprised if the PTR notes come out mid november.

The people running KBW are running crit main stat which means they have enough crit chance to make it efficient even when wearing entropy. We don’t really have enough stat points in the western version to make crit main stat builds feel good.

There’s not much hidden from us. Cd is 15%, kbw needs 82% crit rate to match that. Some are running main crit nightmare, other entropy users might know they have statics and readily available party synergies or they just place a higher emphasis on this, or they fear the healing penalty from CD and don’t consider 1% worth it, or they just have the kbw books and are not going to buy CD just for 1% and some just copy builds without knowing anything specific.

There’s a variety of reasons, but the math behind it is quite simple

You’re free to believe it as having this kind of argument is a bit pointless. You won’t believe me and it’s a hard point to convey. All I can tell you is there’s no “play better” when your dps windows are shorter. DPS gained by higher damage is lost by not being able to use skills as they come off cooldown. Your movement skill is slower, all your dps skill are slower, your counter is slower.
This is something you understand only after you play long enough.
I main ew deadeye and I have entropy BT in my roster. I’m pretty familiar with animation locks.

Please show your work this just sounds ridiculously wrong

I’m guessing your confusion is from ps being an entropy user with 55-60 extra crit damage.

This explains it better then I can on the phone