Supports have way too much agency in ranked

In general the supports are just completely broken, everyone agrees that without a supp at higher ranks its instant loss. I don’t understand why the PvP matchmaking works the way it does while allowing supports to dictate games.

Obviously, if you are good enough you will climb, as enemy will get same amount of supports as you in the long run, but I think we can all agree certain individual games are instantly lost based on matchup and most of the time its because of support imbalance. And this happens VERY frequently in ranked. Why does Paladin do same damage as a deathblade? Why does Bard give straight CC immunity? Its just super annoying how strong supports are.

4 Likes

Why don’t you try to play as a support in ranked? As a bard I can’t peel myself , if I am down I’m dead (in a horrible way, even with Endurance build) and most of the ranked teams don’t care, they just attack aimlessly expecting you to peel them but taking 0 care about you when you are targetted.

Being a support is pointless with a solo ranked queue because you don’t have the capacity to carry a game as if you were a DPS. Paladin dmg is stupid yeah, but talking from a Bard perspective it doesn’t matter how good of a support you are. You can peel them, you can heal them, give them dmg and cc inmunity, but they have to keep an eye on you and mostly they don’t. You depend ENTIRELY on your team performance, if they are “bad” and you are a good support it doesn’t matter, you lose.

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+1

Paladin dmg is stupid yeah

How many people actually tried playing paladin in a decent skill bracket? Getting your combos off for that huge damage is ridiculously hard compared to other classes.

I agree that damage mitigation and shields are too good, that’s why they just got nerfed in KR. But Paladin no super armor and can get his skills off only if he’s completely unobstructed. And that doesn’t happen very often in melee range.

The issue with Paladin is that he can dmg as much as a DPS perfectly and he also has support skills, we are not talking about how hard is it to combo with him, we are talking about numbers and the numbers are very high.

If he have the strong supportive skills he shouldn’t be able to crit people for 35k with a combo and if he is gonna do that and still have the support skills, where do I have to sign with my bard to have that dps output and still be able to support? lol

The numbers can be very high, but are very inconsistent. That’s why he has no superarmor, because it would be broken.

Defensive abilities are easy to use and anyone could do it, but if you want to do damage it’s one of the most difficult classes to play. Numbers are high in ideal scenarios and matchups, which isn’t always the case.

Bard’s pure support skills are way better in PvP, especially the healing. Paladin offers next to no healing compared to bard.

If you want to go with the versatility route, why can DB do ridiculous amounts of damage while also being immune and really easy to use? Why does sorc have so much damage, cc and mobility? Each class has a weakness and Paladin got nerfted, it’s just that we’re stuck with poor balance patch and awful ranked system.

People learnt Pala and doing over 460K damage in ranked. It’s balance as the deadblade and gunsliger :wink: There are hundreds Palas in PvP and a few in PvE. It’s a balance champion :wink:

Small correction:
DB can’t do ridiculous amounts of damage while being immune. Upperslash doesn’t have damage, sonic, void strike and bladeblitz are the ones that deals damage, and none of em gives you acutal immunity (sonic has some stagger immunity but the skill doesn’t cause any stagger itself).

Plus all of the for mentioned skill is very stationary when using, sonic has a 1.5 sec stationary cast, and requires a void strike before hand that’s another 1 sec. Most people think DB is immune, because they try to intervene during upper slash, but didn’t save skill/cd to punish their damage abilities.

Pal is not really that demanding on damage, in current arena system, long as you can delay enemy scores long enough, with 2 DR, 1 shield and awakening, that is a lot more valuable than damage. The game doesn’t count win based on damage but kill score.

Aside from that, i do agree Pal’s damage is not the problem, i’d rather praise the skill when i saw high damage from pal, rather than complaing “Pal damage OP”.

1 Like

Ahhh, i can see where you are coming from.

A bard plays so differently from pal, requires consistant stun, lifting and possibly pulling that off multiple targets if possible. Sometimes converting the stun in to a stagger combo.

For pal it’s totally different, it’s about providing DR at right time, interrupt melee combo with two knockup(and don’t take too much risk), protect yourself with t2 SA blade vortex. No one requests a Pal to… for example, dash in and eletricute two people, or somehow stagger someone for 2 second so someone can launch a full air combo on it without system protection.

Additionally, if team seriously needs burst damage, sword form pal kicks in and starts dishing damage, with consistant stagger immunity and increased skill range it becomes a new class.

I think pal is overall just much more straightforward than bard, and possibly this post is more directed to pals.

Supports can turn abilities that do 30k damage into 1k damage. Double support on enemy team is instant win for enemy no matter how good you are unless you get lucky with 3 man ults. It’s so bad.

nobody can defend supports anymore. Ive spoken to master/grandmaster supports that have straight up told me the class is busted. Just stop it. The only supports who don’t consider themselves OP are the ones who wouldn’t have climbed with any class anyways. Just stop. Let’s stop pretending that the sky is purple, grass is blue, and supports in pvp are balanced. Just stop

2 Likes

If they actually wanted to nerf supports in a meaningful way, they would nerf their damage. 35% off of DR isn’t changing shit

dash in and eletricute two people, or somehow stagger someone for 2 second so someone can launch a full air combo on it without system protection.

I’d say it depends on the team comp. If I’m playing with melee damage dealers, I’ll play in the way you described. Passive, waiting for my opportunity to deal damage and trying to use mitigation at the right time.

But if I’m playing with let’s say sorc+gunslinger, ofc I’m gonna jump in first and make myself the target when I can take it, so they can get more space to operate and deal damage. Ofc I’m not going to run in like an idiot, but causing a distraction for sorc is always worth it.

That’s the thing, they don’t want supports to be supports in PvP. They want them to have a few utility abilities and do damage as everyone else.

thats the problem tho. I don’t think nerfing their supporting capabilities is the answer. Just their damage so you don’t automatically lose the battle of attrition vs shields. I don’t know for example, why a pally can combo you for nearly as much damage as other classes.

Why not? If it was up to me I’d even remove most high level super armors and mitigations alltogether, lowers the skill ceiling. I’m saying that as a paladin player.

Paladin can do big damage, but it’s inconsitent. With damage increase tripods holy sword has such small hitbox and no superarmor. I’d say it’s the most difficult skill to get off consistently in PvP. Executioner and charge upward swings that launch enemies in the air also have really narrow hitbox and always miss unless you’re dead on target.

If you want electrocution from wrath of god, you don’t have any immunity, so it’s hard to run in and cc multiple enemies. The only thing that does too much dmg in such huge aoe is heavenly blessings. Instant cast 10k damage in big 360 aoe with damage mitigation buff, that needs to be changed.

Paladins and Bards are a feels bad man.
I’ve heard they are nerfing paladins so maybe they won’t be like half of the Grandmaster population soon? but don’t quote me on that, finding patch notes for this game is an absolute joke

The nerf is not specifically to paladin its to DRs mainly. Here are the patch notes

https://www.playlostark.com/en-us/news/articles/may-2022-release-notes

yeah i saw, i assume that you will now be able to punch through the shields if you find the opportunity instead of just waiting them out

maybe , we will see how it will affect the supports atm. I dont think that the change will be very noticeable but i might be wrong. In my opinion the problem with shields is that they are very un interactive, there is no outplay potential nor counter.