Thanks AGS for actually listening to feedback related to Guardians raids! This is a very good move toward a healthy game

[Athem]

Hey!

So after many response and comments in this topic:

@AGS Please, revert the Guardian raids 50% more hp change! Reason inside!

Dear AGS! Please, revert these changes! Not because it makes the raids too hard, but because it makes the raid more time consuming which is not the point of guardian raids. This should be a daily, farming activity which in the meantime teaches you the basics. Guardian raids are not end game contents and are not meant to be this time consuming. While I understand that you got feedback from the minority of beta players, but you should know that these raids are used to be farmed and are pretty …

…I do not really want getting into the theme again, but I want to tell you why was this an important step in this game’s life cycle and how will this determine a lots of things.

First of all, before I start , I want to share a picture:
Tytalos raid screenshot
Edit:
Another one so it can be more creditable:
Tytalos 2
+
Also: I’m not stuck anywhere, only my gear score cap’s me clearing everything.
I only do guardians in a PUG or SOLO and as I said, if AGS has the data, they can prove it.
And before the engravings questions and etc: Yes, I can read maxroll.gg too and can build my character. Yeah, I’m going for Remaining energy and Super charge when I can but yet, I do not really care about efficiency cause this is legacy content and you wont use anything more than for 7 days. No, I wont even bother with my pet till T3, just in WoW… I only care about end-game efficiency.

This screenshot was taken when I was 1000+ ilvl and started testing guardians. I cleared solo (around 7 min~) and did this in group.

Why is this important? First of all, if the screenshot is not enough proof, I think any of the AGS member can see my stats ingame and tell you that I actually cleared almost every Guardian in pugs on the first try and only had to take max 5 tries on some on the minimum ilvl to clear them. So trust me: I know the mechanics, I do not fail on these and I can clear Tytalos on 90% success anytime.

The main reason I tell you this because many of the complainers are the guys who tells you: git gud and learn from these, do not nerf these contents.

Well, let me tell you this: no one in the right mind want to struggle after a hard day for minimum reward in a game just so he can tell that he killed a legacy content.

Another problem is that if you find a content troublesome and more time consuming, you will eventually just skip it. Not gonna lie, I wouldn’t do any of these guardians on my alts , cause it’s just not worth it and it was boring. Oh, and I bet I’m not the only one who thinks that way even if they are able to clear everything. This is a game, I play it to have fun and I do not want a second job… Casual mentality? Yes… but as I said: I can clear everything, I just want to respect my own time.

Like it or not, but the content (mostly the legacy one) needs accessibility by everyone. The hp nerf is good step toward this where accessibility, reward and challenge can be in balance.

These Guardians are fun contents when they are fine tuned. They can actually even catch casual players and make them happy to overcome a reasonable challenge which actually respects their time.

Like it or not but every game is revolved around casuals and in the end and if they leave because they find something more bothersome than rewarding and fun then the game will eventually die and will only have the hardcore playerbase which is … well, let’s just say not good for business or for the game.

Some people already talking about how this game will step on the terrible path of FFXIV. Yeah, terrible path… The game which has the highest playerbase and loved by the most… Would be a shame if this game would turn into an actually success and not just played by a small core audience.

Now, this is what I’m talking about. When someone sais this is taking the path of FFXIV, I think AGS is finally doing something good.

I also think that legacy content nerf is indeed a welcome change. Many of you telling AGS this reason to not nerf legacy content: "People wont learn mechanics and they will enter content without the knowledge.

It’s the otherway. Now, people will actually do these content instead of skip it so they might learn the mechanics. Without these tuning many of them didn’t even bother to go for these and just jumped into harder content without doing them. Oh, and just look at the screenshot above. What do you think, what the other three guy learnt from that fight? Maybe one thing that it’s not worth to bother with this anymore cause they got the kill too.

However, I’m all into more content and if AGS decide to add let’s say… Unleashed Guardians for actual end-game and we can kill each of them for cosmetic rewards, hell… please do it!

Tl.:dr: I’m happy that the content will have more accessibility and people will actually experience old content.

I also hope that we will get more diversity difficulity wise here so nobody has to be left out. Yes, I think we should get a casual friendly difficulity with minimal rewards, but not taking away the experience for example facing Brelshaza later on. Everyone deserves to face her…

So: GJ AGS!

Edit:
People who complain about the nerfs:
What is your real problem? That more people will be able to clear these contents? That you wont be special after killing a guardian which is a daily content?

Cause as you see, I can do that too, but yet I favor the nerfs simply because I want everyone to experience it, and an mmo/game is all about accessibility, fun and respecting your time.

If you really want challenge why do not you ask for more difficulity options with (for example) cosmetic rewards? I think everyone would support that.

However, it seems most of you just want this content exclusive for yourself.

[Father]

+1

[NoxSemperLuceat]

@Athem

Why is this important? First of all, if the screenshot is not enough proof, I think any of the AGS member can see my stats ingame and tell you that I actually cleared almost every Guardian in pugs on the first try and only had to take max 5 tries on some on the minimum ilvl to clear them. So trust me: I know the mechanics, I do not fail on these and I can clear Tytalos on 90% success anytime.

How did you do that?

[Athem]

Tbh I played WoW from the start and tanked every raid till Shadowlands. (HC difficulity, no Mythic for me, I find that too much.) Basicly: Experience and luck too.

But let me tell you: T1 guardians were 0 fun. Not because they are boring, but because the bullet sponge made them boring and I lost interest half way into the fight.

[Athem]

Btw, this is usually the guy who tells you about the content doesn’t need a nerf:

Yup, he died without knowing how to do anything here. Ofc, we cleared the raid for him.

[dxthegreat]

The rested bonus is how the game respects your time. You don’t want to do it every day? you don’t have to.

[Drongtrads]

Im all for content being accessible but the last thing i want is someone who struggled in T1 jumping into T2/T3 content because they feel like theyve done something amazing. Guardians arent hard and i think making them easier is going to give people false confindence and an abyssal raid is going to seem even bigger of a jump in skill required. Thats where players will quit.

[Hero]

I can assure you this will come biting us in the ass. Don’t get surprised now if T3 raids all get nerfed. Truly setting a worrisome precedent for the game.

[Athem]

You know that if someone struggle in T1 they will just skip it and will go to the higher content actually without any experience?

I really want to keep the casual players. As I said… I’m someone who is clearing everything I have no problem with casuals getting access and having fun in the content I already cleared on harder difficulity.

Why should I be mad? Cause they can experience it that way too? They will eventually learn mechanics and etc.

[Aldorim]

@Athem

People who complain about the nerfs:
What is your real problem?

Ok just to give personal insight on that.
My complains about the nerf are:

1. Too early. The game isn’t even normally playable in e.g. EU-Central. So i’m wondering if the databse for this particular time since launch is really a good indicator for nerfing content.
2. it’s bothering me, that this behaviour could be simply repeated from time to time. So players are saying T1-content is too hard/long. Then that happens again in 2 weeks with T2? and in one month with T3?
   Because one thing people for sure have learned now: If you aren’t willing to put any effort in the game, then just go to forums and demand nerfs (maybe imagine a conspiracy first for getting more audience)
3. Demanding a nerf is bad feedback (like that bad feedback from beta everyone has critizised), suggesting gameplay improvements like normal/hard mode for endgame content (e.g. normal/hard mode for endgame as in story/leveling dungeons) would be better feedback. Nerfs just have the potential to ruin the gameplay elements that are introduced in these fights.

4. The biggest problem is the matchmaking. The 1-wipe-forfeit mentality is already spread and i think that is the biggest problem with people not being able to clear even lower tier content.

Tl;dr: I’m personally fine with the nerf, if it doesn’t destroy the encounters completely. Nevertheless I think it’s a little bit early for that.

Edit: added 4

[Panalope]

@Aldorim

4. The biggest problem is the matchmaking. The 1-wipe-forfeit mentality is already spread and i think that is the biggest problem with people not being able to clear even lower tier content.

This is honestly my biggest issue with the game. During my first guardian raid I tried to party it up, someone died, and immediately it was abandoned. No one wants to even try anymore. There’s too many meme posts on reddit of people abandoning the raids at 1% because they die and just want to quit immediately.

[Cirao]

and thats the problem with them looking at the rate how many lobbies disbanded in the dungeons …

[Drachenberg]

I can relate to that so badly, lol!

There are always those big mouthed trolls who think they are pros, but couldn’t get anything done with reading guides about anything and playing Paint by Number Styles.

If they were at least good at what they are doing! But often they haven’t even that going for them…

Like a guy yesterday in Raid saying “Lets try to not die”! After 2 Minutes he died, and pretended “Game is laggy” LMAO

[soujv91]

I would be 100% behind the nerfs to the content, if not for the fact that it creates precedent for them to nerf T3 once the people who are struggling to clear T1/T2 reach it and start complaining about difficulty once more. If you read Amazon’s recent post: “We know that much of the appeal of T3 and late game content is its unique and challenging mechanics, and we do not want to drastically alter this core experience”, to me it clearly says they’re more than OK making changes so long as it’s not drastic. I don’t like that at all, because people who go for the challenging stuff will never feel good about it knowing they’re doing the nerfed version.

Also, sorry but the problem isn’t the content at all. It’s that the majority of the playerbase has absolutely no idea what they’re doing to build their characters. Bosses wouldn’t take 10-12min but since 3 out of 4 players are usually sporting Drops of Ether and Grudge 1 and whatever stats are in the accessories with the highest quality, you end up with a lot of dead weight. I see the point some players make that you shouldn’t need a third party site to tell you how to play better but that’s just how MMOs have been for a good while now. There is so much for us to figure out (stats, triports, engravings, gems, triport skill points in gear) that you’re either a theorycrafter, following one, or getting carried with a broken build.

None of what we’re doing is new, but the western players seem to have a weird thing about going and researching what to do before doing it. If you’re solo or with friends, by all means, do whatever tf you want. But if you’re pugging have some respect for everyone’s time and do some research.

[Drachenberg]

@Panalope

This is honestly my biggest issue with the game. During my first guardian raid I tried to party it up, someone died, and immediately it was abandoned. No one wants to even try anymore. There’s too many meme posts on reddit of people abandoning the raids at 1% because they die and just want to quit immediately.

Those are ironically often the Hardcore players, thinking that everything not going perfect is a defeat. Anyone who every played games like e.g. League of Legends will know them to well.

They have very fragile egos they can’t get over, and would rather fall into rage and arguments, instead of pushing forward. Those are unironically the same people considering themselves as “Pros” and wanting to tell others to “Git gud”.

Oh, the Irony…

[Panalope]

This is actually killing me inside. I played WoW from 2005-2013, then FF14 from 2013-well now lol. I can’t imagine a community that doesn’t buckle down and at least try. Even in WoW where everyone is a toxic twat half the time they can at least stand to wipe a few times before the abandon comes in. Now I find it a blessing if the party says a single word in chat

[Athem]

This is (as far as I know) is a hp nerf. Mechanics will stay the same anway.

Also, I’m not willing to put ANY effort in this game which would change fun>effort. I already cleared everything till my ilvl with pugs, you can see the screenshots that I can actually clear content which is not easy.

However: I would not do guardians in the current state (as you can see, I’m more than capable to do that), because the effort > reward and …just boring. This is just bullet sponge.

More difficulity is always welcome however…

Also: legacy content should never be a draw back for anybody. You know…because these contents which are nerfed are not even relevant anymore.

@Aldorim

The biggest problem is the matchmaking. The 1-wipe-forfeit mentality is already spread and i think that is the biggest problem with people not being able to clear even lower tier content.

This point is totally wrong. The ones whose are leaving after 1 try are the ones mostly who knows what to do and do not want to waste 10 min again. Let me be honest… If everyone dies and I’m left alone and somehow I can’t clear -for example- the guardian, I wont vote to try again, cause that’s too much time, too much effort…

So, basicly the HP nerf maybe will convince people to actually try again cause it’s not a 10 min waste of time if they fail…in a legacy content with almost 0 reward.

[soujv91]

TBH, If I’m doing a guardian with a pug and we wipe, I’ll not vote to try again with the same people. Doesn’t matter if it’s a 20min fight or a 4min fight. I’ll give it a few tries on abyss (which is another content that doesn’t deserve any nerf whatsoever but is getting it anyway)

[Skillo]

@Panalope

This is honestly my biggest issue with the game. During my first guardian raid I tried to party it up, someone died, and immediately it was abandoned. No one wants to even try anymore.

The issue is that while this might be a new and exciting guardian to try out and learn, the other members might have killed it a dozen times and just want to do their daily clear. They don’t give a fuck about your journey, and they don’t have to.

[Panalope]

Sorry I think you guys misunderstood. It’s the person who dies first that usually initiates the abandon, not the dude who is carrying while 3 people are dead lol