The Pheons effects on game economy and player experience

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[Removed first part of comment due to lack of understanding lol, mb]

What if it was the opposite?
Accessories have Trading Limits (max 3, which decreases by 1 with each sale). Since “flipping” is a possibility when Trading is still possible, it would make sense to decrease the Pheon cost per Limit available.

For example, once you get the drop, to purchase it (with Trading Limit at 3) it would cost the original 25 Pheons. But then decrease by 10 with each “Trade”, so at Limit 2 it would cost 15 instead and at 1 5 Pheons.

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On your first point, you do understand that there was a follow-up to that right? The initial sale costs nothing, and additional sales cost more because they would be combatting a player who takes advantage of the market by buying and re-selling items.

Thanks,

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erm… what? xD
Alright, no more constructive opinions/suggestions from me then. Have a nice evening :slight_smile:

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Perhaps I was a bit harsh, but your point made no actual logical sense. Since selling low cost items would still be profitable based on my suggestion, and would in no way limit a persons ability to sell low cost drops they get from raids on the market. It would only limit the ability of a player to purchase a low cost item ~100g and then re-sell as long as the value is roughly 5% higher.

Does this explain the proposed system better?

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You’re correct, my mistake :stuck_out_tongue:

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Tbh, this has been argued other times already and pointed out… that you earn more than enough gold to easily maintain pheons.

Lazy math… for NAE, 85g/pheon, 10,687.5g for the 100 bundles, and 2,137.5g per relic.

We look at the BASE gold generation…

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Assuming most people with pheons issue have at least a 1460 main already geared.

Unas/Island = 5.14k/week (added to roster already)

Full 1460 - 75.34k/week
Main + 1445s - 69.34k/week
Main + 1430s - 63.34k/week
Main + 1415s - 46.84k/week
Main + 1370s - 40.84k/week

Each week you buy 100 pheons… with this much gold left to buy accessories, stones or buy books.

Full 1460 - 75.34k/week - pheons(10.7k) = 64.64k/week
Main + 1445s - 69.34k/week = 58.64k/week
Main + 1430s - 63.34k/week = 52.64k/week
Main + 1415s - 46.84k/week = 36.14k/week
Main + 1370s - 40.84k/week = 30.14k/week

The percentage of gold you keep each week vs use on pheons.

Full 1460 - 75.34k/week = 64.64k/week - keep 85.8%, pheons 14.2%
Main + 1445s - 69.34k/week = 58.64k/week - keep 84.57%, pheons 15.43%
Main + 1430s - 63.34k/week = 52.64k/week - keep 83.11%, pheons 16.89%
Main + 1415s - 46.84k/week = 36.14k/week - keep 77.16%, pheons 22.84%
Main + 1370s - 40.84k/week = 30.14k/week - keep 73.8%, pheons 26.2%

1370s, 1415s, and 1430s likely don’t use relic accessories so we won’t focus on those numbers but I give them to show trends. They also use legendary accessories at 15/peice so they have more buying power. They are also usually on 4x3 so with 100 pheons, they can buy 6 pieces of accessories vs 4 relics for 1445/1460s.

Also on average 1445/1460 can buy grudge at 8-10k 3-6 books a week or class books at 6k 5-10 books a week or invest in accessories. Adjust these to fit your situation.

Since prices vary, let’s just assume for the average gamer on NAE… for nonclass green/blue accessories, it’s 5-15k each and 30-50k for class accessories for NAE. Based on the numbers, you can afford 2-6 pieces of non-class or 1-2 class accessories a week with the gold left over after pheons.

10-20 stones per 100 pheons at 1k (5/9 pheons) each leaves even a 1370 roster with 10k left with just leg stones… 1445 roster with 30-40k left.

So the question is if on average 1430s/14460s are keeping/spending…

Full 1460 - 75.34k/week = 64.64k/week - keep 85.8%, pheons 14.2%
Main + 1445s - 69.34k/week = 58.64k/week - keep 84.57%, pheons 15.43%

We know a player earns set gold/week so you must switch gold priority from goals to goals. Where are people spending their other 85% gold?

The complaints clearly indicate something is eating up your gold at alarming rates, to the point you can’t even spend 14-15% of your weekly income on 4-5 pieces of 5-6 month lasting accessories.

Whether it be… you trying to gear up multiple alts, made mistakes buying bad accessories, or wanting to cut 100 stones with rng. This gold has to be going somewhere to make you feel like pheons cost too much. There is likely a reasonable and logical explanation for why you can’t afford pheons when you actually can.

Even if you play less than 6 characters, the gold spending would reduce proportionately. Since you will spend less gold overall, need fewer pheons, etc.

Pheons don’t help any of us gamers, I get it but we have to live with them. The quick numbers here give a different image of the severity of the situation tbh.

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While I appreciate you taking the time to make this well thought out and organized reply, I have pointed out problems its currently causing in the game and how it does effect player experience. Its also quite unrealistic for every player to have a full roster of 1460 or even 1370+ characters. The game mechanics should be developed and maintained to be inclusive and not exclusive.

Also it may be worth pointing out that, its not something “we have to live with” the publishers of the game (Amazon) chose to keep them in, and based on player feedback and suggestion “could” choose to take them out.

I simply am trying to make the argument that its a bad system that excludes players that don’t spend a ton of time playing the game and limits a players ability to make changes to their build based on the price of pheons. Which the cost will only grow as the price of crystals go up, which is inevitable.

It may also be worth pointing out that this item even being required in the cash shop is an automatic exclusionary factor for some players. This is assuming of course that less players = bad for everyone.

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I get it, it’s super easy to dismiss convos like these when presented with numbers advocating against your main concern but what I did was try to offer you perspective.

There isn’t just one group or one way here. You say player experiences, yet exclude everyone not struggling with pheons. The player experience with pheons varies and I am pointing that out with numbers to show you? that it’s not always the fault of pheons when it comes to how players want to use their gold. People are spending upwards to 85% of their weekly income on cool things but refuse to spend 15% on pheons. You don’t see this as an issue? The people okay with spending 15% are likely having a decent/good experience, then?

Anyways, I addressed the issue of player commitment and roster. The fewer characters you play, the less gold you use overall. If you don’t have 6 1370s, then the pheon cost is even lower for you b/c you now need even less of them. You don’t play a lot? you need even less b/c it’ll take you 2 years to go through 100 pheons at that rate.

Anyways, the exchange isn’t perfect but everyone has access to it and it’s more like a free-to-play cash shop for free players if anything. It’s 99% useless to the average paying/spender so it’s not really a cash shop exclusive item, it’s a free-to-play item bought from the free-to-play store that only interacts with RC, that’s it.

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I didn’t dismiss your argument, I understand that if you look at playing a game as a long term commitment, it works out. You also probably assumed I myself am a player struggling with pheons, which I am not, I have plenty atm. I simply noticed a problem its causing and thought to use the community forums as a way to address it or shed light on it.

I understand you can use normal financial planning strategies to mitigate the cost of the pheon. But we shouldn’t have to, is my entire argument.

Should a single sourced cash shop item dictate player interaction via the buying and selling of items? My answer to this simple question would be a resounding NO. ( I understand its available from other players via gold, but its source still requires someone to pay money, where I would argue that no person should have to pay money to make simple inter-player transactions a possibility). This in my personal opinion is a strategy that the online gaming developers and publishers dropped into games and due to players “living with it” became widely accepted.

I understand the game is actually run by businesses which require revenue, and the pheon exists for this simple reason. Though I would argue the removal of the pheon probably wouldn’t change how much revenue the game is making. Those who are spending money on the game will continue to do so, and will simply re-allocate those funds to something else if the pheon didn’t exist. And IMO make the game that much better for it.

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Your complaints are not valid, because if you are at stage where u r gearing ur alt, it means u should at-least have a couple of other alt to help u in the process
I have 1 main at 1460, 3 alts at 1370 and 2 alts at 1400, I make with them by doing my weeklies only exactly 33k gold, this amount of gold does not depend on luck, in fact if I was lucky like this week for example, I won an AH of grudge for 7.5k and sold it for 11.1k, I did cube with my alts and one of them had keen blunt book that sold for 9.5k, my weekly una dropped 10k extra gold, I easily made over 60k. I haven’t mentioned the other things u could do to make extra money like selling the extra stones or doing islands that give around 900 gold and so many other things to do. So you complaining about spending 12k to gear an alt is really really unreasonable at all, it’s like u asking to be fed with spoon while u have ur both hands to feed urself. The idea is to have everything at day 1 or I quit is as childish as ever and that what makes mmo so boring and so not worth to play. Oh and btw I’m free to playProcessing: 4E93DB3C-3E43-4310-BE05-22B2467CF85D.png…

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I understand that you can accomplish obtaining the pheons as a free to play player.

Answer this simple question.

Should player trading be dictated by an item that requires a real money purchase, even if its not you who purchased it for real money?

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Why does ur question matter? If u can easy afford buying pheons, with in game currency, as I explained, the game is working perfectly fine, stop demanding unnecessary changes that u have no clue about its consequences

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If you defend pheons you’ve been had by a psychological system. How does that make you feel? To be completely had by a developer? Oof.

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So u ran out of reasonable arguments and started with personal accusations, good for u

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The only issue i See with pheons at the Moment are for new Players. They get like 50 free pheons and get warped to 1370 without a chance to gear themselfes or their free alt while sitting on 30k bound shards and 400 great leapstones with 0 gold.

Once you have a full roster it gets better.

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So you agree then? every player already has the power and ability to afford pheons, with ease. However, they may choose not to.

I mean that’s fine to think this.

What you’re suggesting is a revamp of their entire monetization system, you know this right?

If you think the main issue is player experience from lack of gold to buy the pheons? then there’s already a simple solution that doesn’t need changing anything.

They reduce gold income by 15% and give them 100 pheons instead? This way it forces people to gear up or use it, rather than give them the freedom to choose between gold spent on skin or pheons each week.

But I’m sure a lot of people would be upset with making 15% less gold each week and having less freedom.

lol, opinion to opinion of course not but it is what it is. We know why the system exists already.

Anyways, what’s the take from all this? Players do in fact get enough gold, but with the freedom they get, they often choose not to buy the gear trading currency we call pheons and instead spend it on other things.

The player experience with the pheon system is more likely player-driven than it is pheon driven.

I will agree, that pheons do have issues and they do limit some player experiences etc. but not being able to afford them isn’t the issue here lol.

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So you won’t answer the most basic question?

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Thank you, all I was looking for is for these points to be conceded.

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My answer is as clear as the sun, it doesn’t matter if it requires real money purchases or not, since u can afford it with in game currencies too. And the game does pretty good job in rewarding u with enough money to be able to purchase it

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But this only applies if you treat Lost Ark as a second full time job.
I stopped playing in late April as i wasnt happy about their class release scedule. Now that Arcana came out i hopped back into the game on 5th of August.
My Arcana is 1412 now and i have 3 alts on 1340. I make 2.7k for argos per week with my main + 2.1k from abyss raids.
My alts get 1.5k each for oreha normal mode dungeons so 4.5k in total. Thats 9.3k in total. Add whatever unas weekly gives (and i never got the 10k bar as of now) and thats my income per week so far.
Thats barely enough to push my Arcana further what i did for 2 weeks now and i still cant do valtan with my friends yet.

But still ppl vote to stop the oreha raids and even dissconnect frequently cause my alts dont have any engravings outside of maybe the classengraving on 2 or 3.
It would only cost me about 1k to buy each of them a somewhat decent set but 10k pheons cost for all of them as well so 30k. Only to replace them (once i dont have to funnel everyhting into my arcana anymore) and push them to 1370 to pay another 30k pheons while buying them a decent set would now cost me around 2k.

No matter how you twist and turn it - its a very bad system for new and returing players and cant be argued against by expecting ppl to have 5 alts at 1370 and above.

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