Thoughts on casting reflux performance

So my main is a casting reflux sorc 1490 5x3 Reflux/Grudge/PD/AoA/HM with final strike tripods. I went casting with argos gear at 1370 and instantly loved the build. I first had in mind to switch to instant crit with relic gear since I read a lot about all possible reflux builds and everyone everywhere says that casting reflux is weak after relic. I still build a 5x3 casting build because it’s cheaper and I enjoy the playstyle, with the project of slowly working on 5x3 instant crit build.

So here I am now, I will have my 5x3 intant crit build completed when tripod update comes and I’m pretty excited to try it out. However I perform really well with my current build and I don’t understand all the hate on it. I’m pretty often MVP in raids, almost always cruel fighter and I can’t remember the last time I was not in the final 4 MVP screen, even in lobbies with higher ilvl than me on classes supposedly way better at dpsing.

Is this just because of trixion numbers being lower ? I’d love to know if casting reflux enjoyers out there have similar experience? Personally I think that casting have good performance in raids because you can cancel and reposition your casting spells if the boss moves without losing much dmg, while if you do the same on igniter for example you may not hit your second doomsday and lose half of it. Being able to reposition freely with blink is good for dmg too since you avoid downtime. What you guys think ?

the build is acceptable it just doesnt necessarily play into the strenghts of the reflux engraving

the big spells are just by design better with burst synergies and windows which is exactly what igniter does which is also where the notion comes from that casting reflux is mostly a weaker igniter in terms of performance

im not sure about number comparisons nowadays but im positive that its still not an awful build per say and if you like it you should stick with it

As someone who played casting reflux well into relic gear, I also don’t understand the hate for the build. I often see people say things like “if you’re going to play casting reflux, you might as well play igniter”, but they aren’t the same build and don’t play the same way. Casting reflux is more mobile since you can freely use blink and is a lot more forgiving for missing skills or forced to miss part of a burst window.

However with that said, I have also built instant cast reflux a while ago (I still have casting reflux build and switch between builds depending on content). With relic gear, there is very noticeable dps difference between casting and instant cast. It’s also a lot easier to prog new content with instant cast since you have very little animation lock and can build meter faster for blink.

This isn’t saying casting reflux isn’t viable in end game, it’s just the weakest of all sorc builds once you can access nightmare set. But if you really enjoy casting reflux, by all means stick with it. Sorc is overall a strong dps class regardless of build. The bigger difference will be player skill.

It’s really nice to have the output of someone who has taken the path I am about to take. When my instant cast build is ready I hope I will notice the dps difference too :slight_smile:

Couldn’t agree more about the difference with igniter. The build seems really punishing and way different to play than casting. I know that as a casting reflux sorc I will never do as much dmg as an igniter sorc that plays perfectly and lands every bit of dmg but in a raid scenario this is unlikely and I often find myself performing better.

Happy to see that there are some casting enjoyers out there !

Actually, if you’re a good and experienced player and you know the ins and outs of a raid, this scenario is actually not that unlikely. In fact, I believe that if you know a raid and play it properly, it’s pretty easy to not miss a single doomsday. Some times you just have to be patient to pull the trigger.

I am aware that a good igniter will perform better and I think it’s fair since the class is more punishing and overall harder to play. But in reality I have met very few that did good in raid.

Note that I never played igniter so I may be wrong here, but from what I know the window in which 2 doomsday can land is pretty tight with the second one landing just before the end of arcane. So once you activate arcane you cannot afford to cancel and recast a spell without losing the second doomsday dmg. Add to this the coin flip crit and I think you can see why I usually don’t see igniter sorcs perform that well in raids.

Overall I’d say igniter has higher highs and lower lows, with a completely different playstyle, that seems more stressful and punishing to me.

In my personal experiance with reflux Sorcs in raids… they were almost always negativ.

its the same like Mayhem Berserker-> easy to build easy to deal dmg in lower lvls, but hard to manage to be on top as MVP

i personally would rather always take a Igniter instead of Reflux… also i deny as a bard in my daily Kunge groups every Reflux, cause they missing Stagger and Hitpoint which results in a longer Kungefight cause they arent able - in my personal experience of the last Month

im not saying its a bad build , i say lots of players which play that build, dont know what they do and then people come to bad experiences and bad conclusion, dont take

Reflux pianos… they play like my 2 year old son on my piano → hes happy to hit the keys , there are sounds, he find it great , but the rest would rather throw away the piano

I’m curious, in which content do you switch to casting build ?

Yea, I understand. I have met a few good Igniter sorcs. one of them is our Guild/Static Leader. he’s pretty insane when it comes to playing sorc. Even in clown, probably the most chaotic/random raid available atm, he hardly ever misses a doomsday. Of course there’s once or twice it happens, but it’s very rare.

When it comes to igniter, it’s all about controlling the fight. You don’t ever insta use Arcane just because you have the meter. You have to wait for the right time, more often than not.

The Coin flip is always there, that’s true. You can mitigate it with Adrenaline instead of Cursed Doll. It’s usually more efficient because it reduces that coin flip, but pretty hard to use and usually deals slightly less damage, from my experience. Eventually you can go CD3 + Adrenaline 1 or 2, but that’s probably only possible in the far future eheh

I use casting for all equalised content, basically things that don’t let you use relic set bonus. Without nightmare set, instant cast can’t sustain enough mana to keep spamming skills. Sometimes when I carry friends on lower tier/level guardians, I might also switch to casting just for fun.

Although I have cleared up to vykas hm with casting build. Don’t really want to try it on clown since he moves around so much and my static is not yet at a point where we can play around with different builds and still comfortably clear.

I know igniter is the more popular build for getting out that mega damage, but I still play a reflux sorc; for me, I’m able to be more consistent on a reflux build when I’m not sweating about perfectly landing and timing every single hit and it feels more comfortable and fun for me to play that way. :person_shrugging:

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The damage feels a little low but I also think that stationary Trixion dummy is not the way to go about it.

If you have knowledge of the encounter she does fine. I went full el cheapo with mine (I did 333321 with 2 Legendary Combat Engravings) and she is strong enough to do great in Clown + do all busses as expected for her ilvl.

The thing people forget is that it is very easy to play at 90-100% efficiency on reflux vs igniter. Yes igniter is stronger but only if they are massively overgeared and can take a big chunk out of the total hp pool or if they know the fight very well. Casting reflux is a decent build but from my experience it just doesnt put out as much damage as instant. Reverse gravity with cd tripod is the highest dps skill reflux sorc has assuming you can land all of them(which isnt easy lol). In the end if yoire actually a good player and have decent engravings / stat spread / tripod levels, you will be fine playing any build.

If this is what you want to play then do it, it shouldnt matter what other people say.

Now thats out of the way, the reason people arent excited about reflux casting is that its the lowest DPS spec of any meta sorc build at your ilevel.

Ive played all 5 of the “popular builds” in both trixion and real world settings. Every current raid out in NA. Its not terrible, but even piano flux would out dps it in most scenereos.

Side note: statements like “i mvp a lot, or cruel fighter a lot” so it must be fine are dumb. Where you show up on the mvp screen has no bearing one how viable a build is. Its only how you do in relation to others in that exact raid at that exact time. That sorc might have missed a doomsday, or pushed the boss in a mech mid burst. Name any meta class, and i have a 50% cruel fighter mvp with them on the screen. Doesnt mean my build is better than theirs, just i performed better at that instance on that raid.

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i have 2 sorc alts. One is insta crit, the other is casting. They are 4x3 still, but i would say insta crit is just faster, more consistent damage. Still you can use doomsday in insta crit build as well for some of the content where destruction is needed. My casting alt was igniter before that. Well ignite sorc for me it’s too slow build, too risky build and i find it pretty boring to play. At the end play what you like and what you feel more comfortable.

I’ve played a lot of Igniter, Casting Reflux and Instacast. In terms of fun, I enjoyed casting reflux the most but it was definitely the weakest build out of the 3. I really tried to make it work and tried out many variations in trixion, but it’s always weaker than instacast. The gap will only become bigger in real raids because there’s more room for error for casting reflux vs instacast

However, it’s only weak relative to the other 2 builds. When I was casting reflux, I farmed MVP because of skill diff. You can clear any content with casting reflux and you can farm MVP against pugs

I play casting reflux from the beginning and i can say that it has the best of reflux and the best of igniter.

You have the frenetic game style of reflux and the big numbers of igniter (obviously not as high) But it is a build a bit trickier than piano because is more dependent on getting your big skills right. So it has a more challenging game style component comparing to piano imo.

Casting is a build that will be enjoyed by a person who likes nukes but hates the slow play style of igniter. And will be a build that a person who doesn’t like the need of constant accuracy will “hate”.

That is why ppl say that is the weakest of three i think, because is easier to lose DMG compared to piano. But if you get used to it…is fun and really strong.

o/
As a fellow Sorc main - I play casting reflux with final strike.
I made a change to my setup a few days ago and man its a day-night difference for me.
I still use Precise Dagger in my setup as we dont have bracelets yet.
I was about 65/35 with crit/swift and was doing really well. However I unlocked the LoS-18 card set and that made my crit just a little too low.
So i switched to max crit with swift on neck, and upgraded a few cooldown gems to level 8.
Now this build feels mega powerfull. Im hitting doomsday numbers i have never seen before.
Add a good bard/pala to that and you will have a great time seeing nice crit numbers, with very little downtime.
I enjoy the freedom of the class, blinking whenever i feel like it :smiley:
I also watched a video some time ago about there not being any 1600+ casting reflux sorcs out there. So these tier lists are just calculated numbers on a target dummy for me.

I will stay with Casting Reflux until im sick of sorc. Igniter’s can kiss my @$$ :stuck_out_tongue:

A good player will utilize the most out of a relux build. They constantly and consistently attacking/moving neither close nor far range, for example, when hiding behind pillars from valtan in which igniter has that spec/crit build, long casting time, slower movement, and if they hit it hurts, if they dont…well shouldve went reflux lol jk . Theres two different playstyle, but they both still do the same job.

7% crit from LWC is 7% dmg increase overall for final strike tripod.